2 stroke thread (with occasional F1 relevance!)

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
J.A.W.
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Re: 2 stroke thread (with occasional F1 relevance!)

Post by J.A.W. » Fri May 18, 2018 3:45 am

Toroidal combustion chamber cut into billet SSO head - for Jorgen's well-developed classic Kawasaki H2 750 triple..

Image
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Tommy Cookers
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Re: 2 stroke thread (with occasional F1 relevance!)

Post by Tommy Cookers » Fri May 18, 2018 10:19 am

glycerine is an ester
many synthetic 'oils' are esters
vegetable oils eg castor oil are esters (mineral oils are broadly olefins)

how would glycerine used as 'oil' avoid similar contribution to limits of what is for convenience called UBHC ?
legally ?
chemically ?
or not in any way ? - (as I would imagine)

Pinger
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Re: 2 stroke thread (with occasional F1 relevance!)

Post by Pinger » Fri May 18, 2018 11:03 am

gruntguru wrote:
Fri May 18, 2018 12:23 am
"Fully Synthetic" does not necessarily mean "non hydrocarbon."

http://www.synthetic-oil-technology.info/
Fair point. But, for 4T oils, when deviation from fully synthetic to semi synthetic occurs it will be by blending with hydrocarbon mineral oil. The reason that is done is that fully synthetic oils lack solubility which impedes their uptake and retention of the myriad additive packages required. So, while a fully synthetic oil's base may have a long service life, its real world life is determined by its meagre additive packages content which will deplete before the actual oil is spent and thus determines the oil's actual service life.

The above relates to 'sumped' lubricants. One pass oils such as 2T oils can omit much of the additives otherwise required and can therefore eliminate the addition of mineral oils there solely to add solubility.

Referring back to the Stihl 4-Mix engines. Stihl market three 2T oils. A mineral, a semi synthetic, and a fully synthetic. Stihl approve only the last one for use in 4-Mix engines.

J.A.W.
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Re: 2 stroke thread (with occasional F1 relevance!)

Post by J.A.W. » Sun May 20, 2018 2:42 am

Forum member 'Uniflow' - shows us his (home-developed, 'sliding door'/variable port-area) - rotary disc-valve, 2T engine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v5jLX4KtpXs
Dr Zachary Smith sez..
"Yes.. spare us your ridiculous remarks, you insensitive idiot!"

J.A.W.
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Re: 2 stroke thread (with occasional F1 relevance!)

Post by J.A.W. » Sun Jun 10, 2018 11:57 pm

Many interesting 2T developments are due to inspired individuals, as a number of forum members here
have shown - in the course of this thread.

The link below features another such 'intuitive' mind at work, in Martin Heinrich.
One Heinrich design (made in metal) was a remarkable H8 2T, being 4 opposed-twin rotary valve units enbloc..

http://www.amsnow.com/how-to-tech/2017/ ... le-engines
Dr Zachary Smith sez..
"Yes.. spare us your ridiculous remarks, you insensitive idiot!"

J.A.W.
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Re: 2 stroke thread (with occasional F1 relevance!)

Post by J.A.W. » Thu Jun 21, 2018 9:37 am

Recent science journal article examining finetuning a 300cc 2T cylinder running a low-pressure DI system, at "full power" level.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/a ... 0217337578
Dr Zachary Smith sez..
"Yes.. spare us your ridiculous remarks, you insensitive idiot!"

Pinger
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Re: 2 stroke thread (with occasional F1 relevance!)

Post by Pinger » Thu Jun 21, 2018 6:37 pm

Cheers J.A.W.. Found both articles interesting.

J.A.W.
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Re: 2 stroke thread (with occasional F1 relevance!)

Post by J.A.W. » Wed Jul 11, 2018 5:55 am

Further evidence that basic 2T's are still amenable to 'backyard' tuning approaches.. such as.. 50cc/20ps..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LIk71wFp1nc
Dr Zachary Smith sez..
"Yes.. spare us your ridiculous remarks, you insensitive idiot!"

PlatinumZealot
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Re: 2 stroke thread (with occasional F1 relevance!)

Post by PlatinumZealot » Sun Jul 15, 2018 9:00 pm

Been at the new job for a few months now. Power plant. 800mm bore two stroke MAN engines. Basically ship engines. But you get to understand why a two stroke "cross-head" design works best to get the high efficiencie and high reliabilty.

A cross-head design means almost zero blow into the crank case by and no side loads on the cylinders but the weight is heavy. Would be interesting if it were used in F1. How they could lighten it.
Last edited by PlatinumZealot on Tue Jul 17, 2018 5:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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gruntguru
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Re: 2 stroke thread (with occasional F1 relevance!)

Post by gruntguru » Mon Jul 16, 2018 12:56 am

PlatinumZealot wrote:
Sun Jul 15, 2018 9:00 pm
A cross-head design means blow by . . .
You mean "reduced blow by"?
je suis charlie

roon
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Re: 2 stroke thread (with occasional F1 relevance!)

Post by roon » Mon Jul 16, 2018 2:56 am

gruntguru wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 12:56 am
PlatinumZealot wrote:
Sun Jul 15, 2018 9:00 pm
A cross-head design means blow by . . .
You mean "reduced blow by"?
Blow-by designed in, may be what he means. The piston doesn't need rings nor touch the cylinder wall. The volume beneath the cylinder can be used as a pump as a sort of forced induction. Blow-by would manifest as a sort of EGR, while being oil-free. The piston rod is what gets sealed from the crankcase, and also acts as the piston guide.

gruntguru
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Re: 2 stroke thread (with occasional F1 relevance!)

Post by gruntguru » Mon Jul 16, 2018 4:40 am

roon wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 2:56 am
gruntguru wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 12:56 am
PlatinumZealot wrote:
Sun Jul 15, 2018 9:00 pm
A cross-head design means blow by . . .
You mean "reduced blow by"?
Blow-by designed in, may be what he means. The piston doesn't need rings nor touch the cylinder wall. The volume beneath the cylinder can be used as a pump as a sort of forced induction. Blow-by would manifest as a sort of EGR, while being oil-free. The piston rod is what gets sealed from the crankcase, and also acts as the piston guide.
They do have rings actually. Combustion pressure is sealed to the space above the piston as in trunk-piston engines. The space below the piston is sometimes used as a scavenge pump.
http://www.marinediesels.info/2_stroke_ ... access.htm
je suis charlie

roon
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Re: 2 stroke thread (with occasional F1 relevance!)

Post by roon » Mon Jul 16, 2018 5:38 am

gruntguru wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 4:40 am
roon wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 2:56 am
gruntguru wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 12:56 am


You mean "reduced blow by"?
Blow-by designed in, may be what he means. The piston doesn't need rings nor touch the cylinder wall. The volume beneath the cylinder can be used as a pump as a sort of forced induction. Blow-by would manifest as a sort of EGR, while being oil-free. The piston rod is what gets sealed from the crankcase, and also acts as the piston guide.
They do have rings actually. Combustion pressure is sealed to the space above the piston as in trunk-piston engines. The space below the piston is sometimes used as a scavenge pump.
http://www.marinediesels.info/2_stroke_ ... access.htm
Cool. I don't doubt some, most, or all, do. Just trying to make sense of the claim. Poorly worded on my part.

J.A.W.
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Re: 2 stroke thread (with occasional F1 relevance!)

Post by J.A.W. » Mon Jul 16, 2018 8:09 am

Tech-transfer from our - currently tightly rules constrained F1 - might well yield viable efficency/performance gains..
..if a 2T/CI approach to turbo-compound piston engines was allowed/followed-up..in a number of usage areas..

(once again.. see below, this 1/4 century old.. NASA-Garrett helo-mill proposal.. as a reference)..

https://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi ... 001160.pdf
Dr Zachary Smith sez..
"Yes.. spare us your ridiculous remarks, you insensitive idiot!"

J.A.W.
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Re: 2 stroke thread (with occasional F1 relevance!)

Post by J.A.W. » Mon Jul 16, 2018 8:24 am

roon wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 2:56 am
gruntguru wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 12:56 am
PlatinumZealot wrote:
Sun Jul 15, 2018 9:00 pm
A cross-head design means blow by . . .
You mean "reduced blow by"?
Blow-by designed in, may be what he means. The piston doesn't need rings nor touch the cylinder wall. The volume beneath the cylinder can be used as a pump as a sort of forced induction. Blow-by would manifest as a sort of EGR, while being oil-free. The piston rod is what gets sealed from the crankcase, and also acts as the piston guide.
Roon, are you by any chance..somehow 'channelling' - the hype.. advanced earlier - in this thread.. for the "Ryger" mill?

(& we are.. still.. patiently.. waiting.. for the.. many times.. promised.. 125cc/70hp Ryger machine.. to 'arrive')..
Dr Zachary Smith sez..
"Yes.. spare us your ridiculous remarks, you insensitive idiot!"