Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
roon
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by roon » Wed Aug 08, 2018 8:03 am

Axial was an odd choice simply because you can't have an axial outlet. The connecting shaft prevents this. Even at it's most basic implementation it was a compromised idea. The compressor outlet needed to do a 180* bend with a turboshaft running through it. Restrictive. Makes no sense. Then there was the space, size, and speed issue on top of that. Why did they do this. Big company, millions of dollars, amateur mistakes?

dren wrote:
Tue Aug 07, 2018 8:07 pm
Sounds like an elongated screw but axial flow.
I've seen pictures of wartime/pre-war turbines or compressors that looked like worm gears, but I can't find any. Here are a couple single-'stage,' single-screw hydraulic screw pumps:

Image

Image

Would a scroll compressor could meet the letter of the rules? While matching speed with the turbine.

Eccentric mud motors come to mind. A pneumatic version would probably be inefficient, hard to balance, prone to failure. Right at home on the RA15H, then.

Image

Image

dren
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by dren » Wed Aug 08, 2018 11:25 am

The later looks like fun to balance at speed.
Honda!

Big Tea
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by Big Tea » Wed Aug 08, 2018 12:15 pm

Image

A 'G ladder' adaption?
One test is worth a thousand expert opinions

Craigy
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by Craigy » Wed Aug 08, 2018 7:23 pm

dren wrote:
Wed Aug 08, 2018 11:25 am
The latter looks like fun to balance at speed.
125,000rpm. Mmhmm.

PlatinumZealot
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by PlatinumZealot » Thu Aug 09, 2018 1:26 am

HPD wrote:
Tue Aug 07, 2018 12:49 pm
Andrew Benson ....
I stopped reading right there! :roll:
"The true champions are also great men. They are capable of making difficult decisions, of admitting their mistakes and of pushing harder than before when they get up from a fall."

- Ferrari chairman Sergio Marchionne

PlatinumZealot
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by PlatinumZealot » Thu Aug 09, 2018 1:30 am

roon wrote:
Wed Aug 08, 2018 8:03 am
Axial was an odd choice simply because you can't have an axial outlet. The connecting shaft prevents this. Even at it's most basic implementation it was a compromised idea. The compressor outlet needed to do a 180* bend with a turboshaft running through it. Restrictive. Makes no sense. Then there was the space, size, and speed issue on top of that. Why did they do this. Big company, millions of dollars, amateur mistakes?

dren wrote:
Tue Aug 07, 2018 8:07 pm
Sounds like an elongated screw but axial flow.
I've seen pictures of wartime/pre-war turbines or compressors that looked like worm gears, but I can't find any. Here are a couple single-'stage,' single-screw hydraulic screw pumps:

https://www.eagleburgmann.com/media/adm ... mage_large

https://www.eagleburgmann.com/media/adm ... mage_large

Would a scroll compressor could meet the letter of the rules? While matching speed with the turbine.

Eccentric mud motors come to mind. A pneumatic version would probably be inefficient, hard to balance, prone to failure. Right at home on the RA15H, then.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... ump%29.gif

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... mation.gif
Modern day compressors do look like that actually. Screw compressors. Just like your typical roots supercharger too.
This design though very efficient, has a LOT of drawbacks in terms of rotation speed. They are heavy and cannot rotate very fast. A very small clearance is between the casing and the rotors. For good "Bite" a minimum of two rotors are needed so the timing gears add more weight. The gears have to be oiled and god help you if the oil gets too hot. They are also large for the same amount of air flow as a radial compressor.
"The true champions are also great men. They are capable of making difficult decisions, of admitting their mistakes and of pushing harder than before when they get up from a fall."

- Ferrari chairman Sergio Marchionne

anthonyfa18
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by anthonyfa18 » Thu Aug 09, 2018 12:25 pm

this is a trackside at budpest test
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z44kLeNinJg

the parts that are being test sound good and look fast mabe a new mgu-h and mgu-k comming befor the spec 3

HPD
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by HPD » Fri Aug 10, 2018 1:25 pm

We need a translator :lol:
Within the team, we analyze the three sectors with more detailed comparisons. I knew that the slow sector 1 is not due to power shortage, but the behavior of fast turn 3 going down further from descending low speed turn 2 is undesirable.

"Turn 1 - 2 - 3, it makes me feel like" Oops ...... "(bitter smile) There is a car that goes downhill and turns back (turns back from Turn 2 to 3) If it is not good you can not get into inside and you can not run well.The rise to Turn 3 has been delayed.The car like Honda somehow managed like that somehow (bitter smile) 」(Tanabe Technical Director)

Actually, the situation that stability is lacking at the start while turning the steering back and the traction is not applied is one of the weak points that STR 13 has been holding from the beginning of the season. However, this time, we were able to break down these weaknesses from Friday to Sunday, which led to a good run in the Hungarian Grand Prix final.

"There are places I do not understand a bit clearly, as I have to look at what will happen in the spa (the 13th round), as I have seen more than expected performance, much lower than expected That's what it is. "
Original: チーム内では、3つのセクターをもっと細かな比較で分析している。セクター1が遅いのはパワー不足によるものではなく、下りの低速ターン2からさらに下っていく高速ターン3の挙動が思わしくないためだとわかっていた。

「ターン1~2~3で、『おっとっと……』っていう感じになるんですよね(苦笑)。下り坂で入っていって切り返していくというあそこ(ターン2から3への切り返し)は、クルマがよくないと中に入っていけなくてうまく走れないんです。ターン3への立ち上がりが遅くなってしまって。昔のなんとかホンダっていうクルマもそうでしたね(苦笑)」(田辺テクニカルディレクター)

 実は、ステアリングを切り返しながらの立ち上がりでスタビリティ(安定性)が不足し、トラクションがかからないという状況は、STR13がシーズン序盤からずっと抱えてきた弱点のひとつだ。しかし今回は、金曜から日曜にかけてこうした弱点を潰し込めたことがハンガリーGP決勝での好走につながった。

「スパ(第13戦)でどうなるか、見てみないとね。まだいくつかはっきりと理解できていないところがあるんだ。今週のように予想以上のパフォーマンスを発揮したり、予想を大きく下回ってしまったりというのが、それだ」

godlameroso
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by godlameroso » Mon Aug 20, 2018 2:48 pm

HPD wrote:
Fri Aug 10, 2018 1:25 pm
We need a translator :lol:
Within the team, we analyze the three sectors with more detailed comparisons. I knew that the slow sector 1 is not due to power shortage, but the behavior of fast turn 3 going down further from descending low speed turn 2 is undesirable.

"Turn 1 - 2 - 3, it makes me feel like" Oops ...... "(bitter smile) There is a car that goes downhill and turns back (turns back from Turn 2 to 3) If it is not good you can not get into inside and you can not run well.The rise to Turn 3 has been delayed.The car like Honda somehow managed like that somehow (bitter smile) 」(Tanabe Technical Director)

Actually, the situation that stability is lacking at the start while turning the steering back and the traction is not applied is one of the weak points that STR 13 has been holding from the beginning of the season. However, this time, we were able to break down these weaknesses from Friday to Sunday, which led to a good run in the Hungarian Grand Prix final.

"There are places I do not understand a bit clearly, as I have to look at what will happen in the spa (the 13th round), as I have seen more than expected performance, much lower than expected That's what it is. "


Saying it's not a shortage of engine power but that the car has instability on turn in, and then on the traction phase they sometimes have difficulty getting the drivability sorted. Also saying that this behavior isn't consistent, on some tracks it's better than on others. That they were able to dial in the car properly and had a good run in Hungary.

Makes sense as their car can just as easily be dead last or best of the rest.
The height of cultivation is really nothing special. It is merely simplicity; the ability to express the utmost with the minimum. Mr.Lee

Revs84
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by Revs84 » Tue Aug 21, 2018 12:32 am

Honda is the only power unit among the four power units, the introduction of spec 3 will slip into the final round of the season.In other words, as rivals advance, they are forced to retreat and even if the second half of the game starts, they will be forced to fight for a while. First of all, I'd like to hurry to put in the qualifying special mode in terms of "how to use", but it is probably the best way to show a bigger advancement range than the rivals with spec 3.
https://sportiva.shueisha.co.jp/smart/c ... /index.php

GhostF1
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by GhostF1 » Tue Aug 21, 2018 6:11 am

Revs84 wrote:
Tue Aug 21, 2018 12:32 am
Honda is the only power unit among the four power units, the introduction of spec 3 will slip into the final round of the season.In other words, as rivals advance, they are forced to retreat and even if the second half of the game starts, they will be forced to fight for a while. First of all, I'd like to hurry to put in the qualifying special mode in terms of "how to use", but it is probably the best way to show a bigger advancement range than the rivals with spec 3.
https://sportiva.shueisha.co.jp/smart/c ... /index.php
Now this reads really rough.. I can't really make a solid conclusion from any of it when read as a whole.

etusch
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by etusch » Tue Aug 21, 2018 11:05 am

They had scheduled it to usa. Very late indeed. But if it is a good step forward its ok as Toro Rosso also sees this year as transition year.

godlameroso
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by godlameroso » Tue Aug 21, 2018 11:19 am

They want to get the q3 mode working, as they feel that is a way to make the most noticable step. That spec 3 won't be ready until the end of the year.
The height of cultivation is really nothing special. It is merely simplicity; the ability to express the utmost with the minimum. Mr.Lee

anthonyfa18
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by anthonyfa18 » Fri Aug 24, 2018 1:18 pm

from spa
Image
Image

Zynerji
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by Zynerji » Fri Aug 24, 2018 1:20 pm

STR my favorite livery of all time. It just looks amazing IMHO.