2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

This forum contains threads to discuss teams themselves. Anything not technical about the cars, including restructuring, performances etc belongs here.
Jackles-UK
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Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by Jackles-UK » Thu Dec 06, 2018 5:02 am

Firing someone every time they make a mistake is hardly a productive means of growth for any business, F1 design included.

The best way to improve is to first fail and, as this is possibly (hard to prove/disprove given the woeful Honda engines in the back of them) the first bad McLaren chassis he has been involved in, you hope he has learned from the mistakes of 2018 to improve going forward.

PP and his aero team have had some pioneering concepts and ideas that the whole grid have ended up adopting, even whilst they’ve been lingering at the back of the field. Fingers crossed they can translate that creativity into to a more stable and competitive MCL34.

techman
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Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by techman » Thu Dec 06, 2018 8:55 am

i think if mclaren had a mercedes engine in 2018 , the team could have beaten the redbulls easy. #believeinmclaren

mclaren111
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Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by mclaren111 » Thu Dec 06, 2018 9:33 am

Adriaan Newey designed a few dogs in his day too...

All part of the process. I still have faith in PP...

M840TR
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Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by M840TR » Thu Dec 06, 2018 9:42 am

Also, a good working environment can make or break a talent. If the place is incredibly unstable no one would be able to give their best.

godlameroso
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Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by godlameroso » Thu Dec 06, 2018 1:31 pm

2018 was a bad year. Even worse that they shifted focus so early. Strategically it was the best move available, unfortunate for the drivers this year, because they had to suffer for it.

They made a critical error which had a big effect on aero performance, but a lot of ideas on the car were innovative, and it wasn't a bad car in a lot of aspects.

Combined with shoehorning a new power unit, and compromises made, and the lack of time, and a bad decision or two, meant the car's potential was limited.

Luckily now they know what they need to do, and have plenty of time, and are devoting all their resources to getting it right, 2019 will be much better. Even the Renault engine will be much better, considering that they focused on 2019 power unit early on as well.

Williams and McLaren both will be much better off next year. They shifted focus long before anyone else, and I think understanding where they went wrong probably opens all sorts of avenues for development.
The height of cultivation is really nothing special. It is merely simplicity; the ability to express the utmost with the minimum. Mr.Lee

mclaren111
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Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by mclaren111 » Thu Dec 06, 2018 3:10 pm

Zak Brown:
Management issues lay at the root of McLaren's difficult 2018 season, but Zak Brown is working hard to bring in changes.
www.crash.net/f1/news/911571/1/lack-con ... -struggles


I for one are looking forward to 2019...

RonDennis
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Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by RonDennis » Thu Dec 06, 2018 3:20 pm

PlatinumZealot wrote:
Thu Dec 06, 2018 2:36 am
M840TR wrote:
Wed Dec 05, 2018 1:00 pm
McLaren CEO Zak Brown says that although the team did not make visible progress with the pace of its car through the year, its understanding of what went wrong progressed rapidly.

"Specifically and technically we now know what we have done wrong," he said. "A lot of the development that has been reported – like we stopped developing the car in Barcelona – was totally inaccurate.

"We had tonnes of bits going on the car up until the US Grand Prix. Some of those were to address the current car and some of those were to validate what we understood were the issues with this car so we didn't replicate those issues going forward."
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/mcla ... r/4308849/
I have been crying out for Peter Prod to be fired since last year... It is no secret he royally screwed the pooch this year too. A fundamental error that only a new chassis can fix?! Unacceptable!
Oh come on, remember that McLaren that never raced? McLaren lost several tools from 2017 to 2018, like the trick suspension and monkeyseat, both were very advanced on the McLaren compared to other midfield teams. They probably choose the wrong solutions for these losses and getting their front suspension banned at the start of the season probably didn't help as well. For me the 2017 chassis is still very good, but everyone is now acting like that one has been crap as well because of the things McLaren said, which probably weren't completely true. I really hope they get someone with vision like Andreas Seidl, while Zak Brown can oversee the whole operation.

McHonda
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Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by McHonda » Thu Dec 06, 2018 3:43 pm

KingHamilton01 wrote:
Wed Dec 05, 2018 5:58 pm
Makes you wonder why they introduced such a complex New nose/canopy if they weren't sure about the fundamental flaw they had on the car, if that isn't carried over to 2019 a bit of wasted concept?
It was supposed to be on the car at seasons start so would be in development before the engine switch was even confirmed the previous year.

M840TR
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Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by M840TR » Thu Dec 06, 2018 6:57 pm

McHonda wrote:
Thu Dec 06, 2018 3:43 pm
KingHamilton01 wrote:
Wed Dec 05, 2018 5:58 pm
Makes you wonder why they introduced such a complex New nose/canopy if they weren't sure about the fundamental flaw they had on the car, if that isn't carried over to 2019 a bit of wasted concept?
It was supposed to be on the car at seasons start so would be in development before the engine switch was even confirmed the previous year.
The lack of pre-season running also hurt them.

diffuser
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Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by diffuser » Thu Dec 06, 2018 10:52 pm

RonDennis wrote:
Thu Dec 06, 2018 3:20 pm
PlatinumZealot wrote:
Thu Dec 06, 2018 2:36 am
I have been crying out for Peter Prod to be fired since last year... It is no secret he royally screwed the pooch this year too. A fundamental error that only a new chassis can fix?! Unacceptable!
Oh come on, remember that McLaren that never raced? McLaren lost several tools from 2017 to 2018, like the trick suspension and monkeyseat, both were very advanced on the McLaren compared to other midfield teams. They probably choose the wrong solutions for these losses and getting their front suspension banned at the start of the season probably didn't help as well. For me the 2017 chassis is still very good, but everyone is now acting like that one has been crap as well because of the things McLaren said, which probably weren't completely true. I really hope they get someone with vision like Andreas Seidl, while Zak Brown can oversee the whole operation.
I've been watching Pete...He has done a few very interesting things but the package as a whole hasn't impressed. There can be several reasons for that. I think he's on a short leash but the decision will be up to Keys. So he has at least 1 more year. That 2nd year, he finishes only if Keys is satisfied with what he's doing.

PlatinumZealot
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Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by PlatinumZealot » Fri Dec 07, 2018 12:52 am

You certainly don't design a nose like that on a short leash. Peter Prod had his chances and I feel he has been unable to move of from the high drag philosophy that seemed to work in the pre-hybrid era. He has been unable to wrap his head around the low drag high efficiency chassis that is needed to succeed in this formula. Get rid.
"The true champions are also great men. They are capable of making difficult decisions, of admitting their mistakes and of pushing harder than before when they get up from a fall."

- Ferrari chairman Sergio Marchionne

M840TR
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Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by M840TR » Fri Dec 07, 2018 9:01 am

PlatinumZealot wrote:
Fri Dec 07, 2018 12:52 am
You certainly don't design a nose like that on a short leash. Peter Prod had his chances and I feel he has been unable to move of from the high drag philosophy that seemed to work in the pre-hybrid era. He has been unable to wrap his head around the low drag high efficiency chassis that is needed to succeed in this formula. Get rid.
I remember hearing him in an old Mclaren YouTube video he'd design a car with as much downforce with the least drag as possible, and that's also tended to be the case for his Redbulls. It might be that his designs get limited due to the chassis, i.e wheelbase and packaging. The Mcl32 and 33 both have short wheelbase and packaging that focus on RW for downforce. And that's Goss' call. But I partially agree though. The aero has been quite uninspired in critical areas.

marmer
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Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by marmer » Fri Dec 07, 2018 10:57 am

Could be that they are still paying for years of the wrong attitude to development.

Ranking downforce as the be all with a very narrow setup window instead of looking at how the car performed in versious scenarios

godlameroso
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Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by godlameroso » Fri Dec 07, 2018 11:11 am

The drivers always said the car was nicely balanced, it was just slow.
The height of cultivation is really nothing special. It is merely simplicity; the ability to express the utmost with the minimum. Mr.Lee

Big Tea
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Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by Big Tea » Fri Dec 07, 2018 3:43 pm

I know we have aero experts here, so without going too deeply into it, once the design is built, am I right in assuming altering the rake angle will mess it up?
Could we have a lack of communication between departments here?
Can I make a 3D printer on my 3D printer?