2018 Scuderia Toro Rosso F1 Team - Honda

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WaikeCU
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Re: 2018 Scuderia Toro Rosso F1 Team - Honda

Post by WaikeCU » Fri Nov 30, 2018 9:44 am

Big Tea wrote:
Thu Nov 29, 2018 2:28 pm
dren wrote:
Thu Nov 29, 2018 12:19 pm
I'm not sure how much credit can be given to Hartley. I'm sure he had some feedback for the engineers, but this just looks like Honda being respectful to a driver being let go.
I have to agree with this. Hartley is a nice guy, I would have liked to see him do well, but he was employed as a race driver, his job was to get points on Sunday. Yes, this changed as the year went on, but he was already in place as a race driver by then, not a development driver.

Still nice to see Honda giving him credit though, and I hope they keep him in their sports devision.
I'd beg to differ really. Perhaps Hartley is really hired just to help with the main focus of development on the Honda PU. When he was hired, Red Bull already knew it was going to be the PU for 2019. At that moment everyone knew the Honda was the weakest on the grid. So it was or still is a big challenge for Red Bull to improve the performance on that Honda PU to another level.

I still read that the 2018 season was a transition year with Toro Rosso and Red Bull. They hired Gasly for the future and sheer speed and Hartley for his development experience. Hartley is no slough as well.

ian_s
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Re: 2018 Scuderia Toro Rosso F1 Team - Honda

Post by ian_s » Fri Nov 30, 2018 10:07 am

marmer wrote:
Fri Nov 30, 2018 9:29 am
TAG wrote:
Thu Nov 29, 2018 9:34 pm
Isn't Hartly just as much a Le Mans 24 hour winner as Alonso?
Not so the year Brendon won he was in the only lmp1 car to finish the race so you could argue he had a slightly easier job than Alonso
Not true, the 2nd LMP1 car finished 8th. Hartleys car was in 2nd place with 2 hours to go, and fought its way back to the lead after a lengthy early pit stop.
Alonso's Le Mans win was much more easy.

Ground Effect
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Re: 2018 Scuderia Toro Rosso F1 Team - Honda

Post by Ground Effect » Fri Nov 30, 2018 10:12 am

Big Tea wrote:
Thu Nov 29, 2018 10:48 pm
TAG wrote:
Thu Nov 29, 2018 10:44 pm
Mark Webber should go then, might as well take a shot at it since all of the sudden that's the en vogue thing.
I had not remembered that he was a LM winner.
Why not?
Mark Webber didn't win Le Mans...
Q: (Stefano Mancini – La Stampa) Kimi, will you help Vettel to win his championship this year?
Kimi Raikkonen: I can only drive one car, obviously. 
@2018 Singapore Grand Prix drivers press conference.

TAG
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Re: 2018 Scuderia Toro Rosso F1 Team - Honda

Post by TAG » Fri Nov 30, 2018 1:15 pm

marmer wrote:
Fri Nov 30, 2018 9:29 am
TAG wrote:
Thu Nov 29, 2018 9:34 pm
Isn't Hartly just as much a Le Mans 24 hour winner as Alonso?
Not so the year Brendon won he was in the only lmp1 car to finish the race so you could argue he had a slightly easier job than Alonso
And the year Alonso won there was only one car competing because the rules were written to make sure that car won. Same difference... in Wikipedia twenty years from now they'll both have one Le Mans win under their names.
5 Time WDC Party Mode ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Big Tea
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Re: 2018 Scuderia Toro Rosso F1 Team - Honda

Post by Big Tea » Fri Nov 30, 2018 2:33 pm

Ground Effect wrote:
Fri Nov 30, 2018 10:12 am
Big Tea wrote:
Thu Nov 29, 2018 10:48 pm
TAG wrote:
Thu Nov 29, 2018 10:44 pm
Mark Webber should go then, might as well take a shot at it since all of the sudden that's the en vogue thing.
I had not remembered that he was a LM winner.
Why not?
Mark Webber didn't win Le Mans...
:D
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Big Tea
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Re: 2018 Scuderia Toro Rosso F1 Team - Honda

Post by Big Tea » Fri Nov 30, 2018 2:35 pm

WaikeCU wrote:
Fri Nov 30, 2018 9:44 am
Big Tea wrote:
Thu Nov 29, 2018 2:28 pm
dren wrote:
Thu Nov 29, 2018 12:19 pm
I'm not sure how much credit can be given to Hartley. I'm sure he had some feedback for the engineers, but this just looks like Honda being respectful to a driver being let go.
I have to agree with this. Hartley is a nice guy, I would have liked to see him do well, but he was employed as a race driver, his job was to get points on Sunday. Yes, this changed as the year went on, but he was already in place as a race driver by then, not a development driver.

Still nice to see Honda giving him credit though, and I hope they keep him in their sports devision.
I'd beg to differ really. Perhaps Hartley is really hired just to help with the main focus of development on the Honda PU. When he was hired, Red Bull already knew it was going to be the PU for 2019. At that moment everyone knew the Honda was the weakest on the grid. So it was or still is a big challenge for Red Bull to improve the performance on that Honda PU to another level.

I still read that the 2018 season was a transition year with Toro Rosso and Red Bull. They hired Gasly for the future and sheer speed and Hartley for his development experience. Hartley is no slough as well.
Could be why he was more appreciated by Honda then? He gave them what they wanted, bit STR would have preferred points.
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bigblue
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Re: 2018 Scuderia Toro Rosso F1 Team - Honda

Post by bigblue » Fri Nov 30, 2018 7:54 pm

A formal (if somewhat brief) thank-you to Hartley has appeared on the STR site : https://scuderiatororosso.redbull.com/e ... ks-brendon

Wouter
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Re: 2018 Scuderia Toro Rosso F1 Team - Honda

Post by Wouter » Fri Nov 30, 2018 8:39 pm

bigblue wrote:
Fri Nov 30, 2018 7:54 pm
A formal (if somewhat brief) thank-you to Hartley has appeared on the STR site : https://scuderiatororosso.redbull.com/e ... ks-brendon
That is indeed a very brief message and quite late.
In addition, Brendon has disappeared from their site since Monday, while he is still
under contract until the end of 2018. Not very decent.

Wouter
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Re: 2018 Scuderia Toro Rosso F1 Team - Honda

Post by Wouter » Thu Dec 06, 2018 9:24 am

Interview with Franz Tost about Honda yesterday on an Italian site.

https://it.motorsport.com/f1/news/tost- ... 08/?nrt=54

The performance has grown a lot, but you've changed several power units ...
"It was not necessary to change power units in Mexico and Austin, but we pushed to do it, in a race weekend to check out some of the news that Honda had ready ".

So it was not part of the initial program?

"No, but at that point it was important for us to familiarize ourselves with these developments immediately. Evaluate the vibrations, the gearshifts, all this kind of thing. And then, of course, to check the performance on the track, that is the driveability and consumption, all things that you can check one hundred percent only when the engine is in the car ".

gandharva
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Re: 2018 Scuderia Toro Rosso F1 Team - Honda

Post by gandharva » Thu Dec 06, 2018 9:52 am

Wouter wrote:
Thu Dec 06, 2018 9:24 am
Interview with Franz Tost about Honda yesterday on an Italian site.
"We have a very good collaboration. If we find anything that can be improved, we sit down together, discuss it and try to find a solution. When we had our first meeting with Honda last year I was shocked: they weren't aware of things about the single-seater, I mean data that also affected the engine, which meant that they hadn't been informed. Today we have a very good relationship and I am convinced that next year they will be able to win races with Red Bull Racing".
:wtf:
Last edited by gandharva on Thu Dec 06, 2018 2:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Jaisonas
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Re: 2018 Scuderia Toro Rosso F1 Team - Honda

Post by Jaisonas » Thu Dec 06, 2018 12:02 pm

Yeah that pretty much confirms it that honda was just an engine supplier for mclaren and they did not see them as partners. I cant understand how they expected them to fix their problems with 0 data....

subcritical71
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Re: 2018 Scuderia Toro Rosso F1 Team - Honda

Post by subcritical71 » Thu Dec 06, 2018 12:34 pm

Jaisonas wrote:
Thu Dec 06, 2018 12:02 pm
Yeah that pretty much confirms it that honda was just an engine supplier for mclaren and they did not see them as partners. I cant understand how they expected them to fix their problems with 0 data....
Are you sure that is in reference to McLaren or how their relationship has grown since the beginning. I find it hard to believe that honda haven’t raced a single seater before. :wink:
How to make F1 better: "Less aero, more power, no DRS!" - Paul Charsley

gandharva
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Re: 2018 Scuderia Toro Rosso F1 Team - Honda

Post by gandharva » Thu Dec 06, 2018 2:48 pm

"our first meeting"

For sure this is a reference to McLaren and if true it's just shocking. On the other hand it fits perfectly into the picture I got after watching that Neflix documentation about McLaren.

etusch
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Re: 2018 Scuderia Toro Rosso F1 Team - Honda

Post by etusch » Thu Dec 06, 2018 7:57 pm

Jaisonas wrote:
Thu Dec 06, 2018 12:02 pm
Yeah that pretty much confirms it that honda was just an engine supplier for mclaren and they did not see them as partners. I cant understand how they expected them to fix their problems with 0 data....
It is hard to believe that how a team try to spoil its own job and keep making this for 3 years.
For me, as a Honda fan, it was wonderful to see Honda doing good. As they produced good base through this season I am expecting better reliability with better performance build on that base and with Redbull chassis it may look a very big leap forward

dren
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Re: 2018 Scuderia Toro Rosso F1 Team - Honda

Post by dren » Fri Dec 07, 2018 12:50 pm

gandharva wrote:
Thu Dec 06, 2018 9:52 am
Wouter wrote:
Thu Dec 06, 2018 9:24 am
Interview with Franz Tost about Honda yesterday on an Italian site.
"We have a very good collaboration. If we find anything that can be improved, we sit down together, discuss it and try to find a solution. When we had our first meeting with Honda last year I was shocked: they weren't aware of things about the single-seater, I mean data that also affected the engine, which meant that they hadn't been informed. Today we have a very good relationship and I am convinced that next year they will be able to win races with Red Bull Racing".
:wtf:
So, they had a works deal but didn't operate like a works team. There is a very arrogant culture at Mclaren. Newey stated in his book he had to get rid of key people at Jaguar to change the old boy culture. Perhaps that's what Mclaren has done recently?
Honda!