Merc youth the worst of the big 3 programs?

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marmer
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Merc youth the worst of the big 3 programs?

Post by marmer » Tue Jan 08, 2019 3:08 pm

after reading on the ferrari topic that pascal is joining them after splitting with merc i ponderd that there youth program is failing far worse than either red bull or ferrari.

lets get pascal out the the way first he did better than his teamates in f1 yet coudl't find a seat partly due to his attitude (maybe) but also being locked into a merc engine drive which left him only really a space at williams as force india already have a youth driver in ocon who is better and money from perez. they could't convice williams to have him over sirgi. to make it worse they pointlessly blocked him from racing in round 1 of FE

they have promoted only bottas to the main team and he has been underwelming. ocon has lost his drive becuase his merc ties blocked a move elsewhere.

meanwhile red bull has promoted from torro rosso i think every driver for them has been from toro apart from webber and cultard.
ferrari have helped bring on 4 of the drivers for next year kvatt, charles givo perez

wesley123
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Re: Merc youth the worst of the big 3 programs?

Post by wesley123 » Tue Jan 08, 2019 3:54 pm

I definitely disagree with this. The problems described are very much true for the other teams as well, and are very likely to happen in the near future, as both Ferrari and Red Bull have their seats occupied. So there won't really be a place for any of their youngsters.
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NathanOlder
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Re: Merc youth the worst of the big 3 programs?

Post by NathanOlder » Tue Jan 08, 2019 6:39 pm

Ferrari's is better because they have had how many drivers come through to race for them ?

0 at the moment isnt it ?

Red Bull have obviously been the best at it, but Mercedes have brought Ocon , Wehrlein and Russell in to F1 now, so they can't be doing to bad. With Ocon or Russell almost certain to be driving for the works team in 2020.
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ian_s
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Re: Merc youth the worst of the big 3 programs?

Post by ian_s » Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:26 pm

NathanOlder wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 6:39 pm
Ferrari's is better because they have had how many drivers come through to race for them ?

0 at the moment isnt it ?

Red Bull have obviously been the best at it, but Mercedes have brought Ocon , Wehrlein and Russell in to F1 now, so they can't be doing to bad. With Ocon or Russell almost certain to be driving for the works team in 2020.
Wasn't leclerc a ferrari junior? I'd say he's doing pretty well
I dont think Merc are doing too bad, they have hamilton and russell, thats the next 5 years sorted. they need to be recruiting for 5 years time.

NathanOlder
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Re: Merc youth the worst of the big 3 programs?

Post by NathanOlder » Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:33 pm

ian_s wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:26 pm
NathanOlder wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 6:39 pm
Ferrari's is better because they have had how many drivers come through to race for them ?

0 at the moment isnt it ?

Red Bull have obviously been the best at it, but Mercedes have brought Ocon , Wehrlein and Russell in to F1 now, so they can't be doing to bad. With Ocon or Russell almost certain to be driving for the works team in 2020.
Wasn't leclerc a ferrari junior? I'd say he's doing pretty well
I dont think Merc are doing too bad, they have hamilton and russell, thats the next 5 years sorted. they need to be recruiting for 5 years time.
Leclerc is Ferrari yes. But my point is still, how many races has a Ferrari Jnr competed in , in the Ferrari team.... 0
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Big Tea
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Re: Merc youth the worst of the big 3 programs?

Post by Big Tea » Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:37 pm

NathanOlder wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 6:39 pm
Ferrari's is better because they have had how many drivers come through to race for them ?

0 at the moment isnt it ?

Red Bull have obviously been the best at it, but Mercedes have brought Ocon , Wehrlein and Russell in to F1 now, so they can't be doing to bad. With Ocon or Russell almost certain to be driving for the works team in 2020.
Red Bull have brought through in numbers, but looking at where they are I don't know that is such a good thing.
It seems that if you fail with if you fail at the STR stage, that is it for ever. (except for one :D )

Williams and Mclaren were the best also Jordan seemed to see the class soon, but the cost has gone up so much now that it is only the big three that has a chance, the others get by on a scrap by scrap method.
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Re: Merc youth the worst of the big 3 programs?

Post by Jackles-UK » Thu Jan 10, 2019 3:21 am

I do agree that being part of the Mercedes stable might be a poisoned chalice. It probably needs mentioning that Ferrari might well have had Jules Bianchi in their car by now had the worst not happened and Sergio Perez was also a Ferrari academy driver until McLaren negotiated his release for the 2013 season and he has had a pretty decent F1 career himself.

On the evidence of the last ten or so years, if you were a young driver you’d have to go for either the Red Bull or McLaren academies. McLaren have had Hamilton, Magnussen, Vandoorne and now Norris in the last 10 years or so and, even though Red Bull can be a pretty ruthless with their decision making, you have to respect the fact that in 2019 there will be no less than seven Red Bull academy graduates on the grid!

NathanOlder
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Re: Merc youth the worst of the big 3 programs?

Post by NathanOlder » Thu Jan 10, 2019 11:24 am

But 10 years ago Mercedes didnt even have an F1 team, and a lot of the drivers you mentoned for Mclaren were young, so when you say the last 10 years or so, its more like the last 20 years or so (21yrs for Lewis I think) So for Mercedes to be bringing drivers in to F1 after 6yrs of being in the sport (Ocon and Wehrlein) They have actually done a better job than Mclaren and Ferrari. When it comes to putting drivers in your 1st team at an early age is unknown as to whether its good. Max had over a year in a small team, Daniel a few years, Vettel a year and a bit, They all worked out. Vandoorne, KMag both backfired for Mclaren for 1 reason or another. So with have Mercedes been the worst ?
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Re: Merc youth the worst of the big 3 programs?

Post by Jolle » Thu Jan 10, 2019 9:52 pm

NathanOlder wrote:
Thu Jan 10, 2019 11:24 am
But 10 years ago Mercedes didnt even have an F1 team, and a lot of the drivers you mentoned for Mclaren were young, so when you say the last 10 years or so, its more like the last 20 years or so (21yrs for Lewis I think) So for Mercedes to be bringing drivers in to F1 after 6yrs of being in the sport (Ocon and Wehrlein) They have actually done a better job than Mclaren and Ferrari. When it comes to putting drivers in your 1st team at an early age is unknown as to whether its good. Max had over a year in a small team, Daniel a few years, Vettel a year and a bit, They all worked out. Vandoorne, KMag both backfired for Mclaren for 1 reason or another. So with have Mercedes been the worst ?
McLaren was part of Mercedes back then. You could track back the Mercedes junior program all the way back to Wendlinger, Frenzen and Schumacher.
Mercedes' program produces to day 3 world champions (Schumacher, Hamilton and Rosberg) with a combined number of titles of 13 (and counting), almost half the possible titles from when they started in the early nineties.

Mercedes have more of a luxury problem, just like RedBull had a couple of years ago, with their seats taken by drivers who make a decent team.

So no, Mercedes their junior program is highly successful, as is RedBulls. Ferrari's on the other hand, there have not been real succeses yet. Massa is a bit of succes, Perez bailed and sadly Charles had his accident and up to this year, most of the time the seats of the main team have been taken by outsiders.

NathanOlder
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Re: Merc youth the worst of the big 3 programs?

Post by NathanOlder » Thu Jan 10, 2019 11:15 pm

Jules not Charles ?

So yes, you basically agree with me that the Merc young driver program is no way the worst of the top 3.
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Jolle
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Re: Merc youth the worst of the big 3 programs?

Post by Jolle » Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:09 am

NathanOlder wrote:
Thu Jan 10, 2019 11:15 pm
Jules not Charles ?

So yes, you basically agree with me that the Merc young driver program is no way the worst of the top 3.
Yes Jules, my bad!