IndyCar Series

[subcritical71]

Side (30 deg) impact testing is part of the testing requirements. Others have tested to 90 deg.
https://us.motorsport.com/automotive/ne ... e/2275879/

From SFI 38.1

The test sled shall be propelled to produce the racing acceleration pulse (Figures 2A and 2B) at a nominal 68G peak, 63 KPH (39.1 mph) velocity change. For initial design validation, two (2) frontal tests and one (1) 30° right frontal test will be required. The results of both frontal tests and the 30° right frontal test must meet the requirements of paragraph 6.1.1. For periodic revalidation, one (1) frontal test and one (1) 30° right frontal test will be required. The results of the frontal test and the 30° right frontal test must meet the requirements of paragraph 6.1.1.

[strad]

jjn9128 I don't know what you're on about
The HANS as Tommy points out is there to stop your head from being pulled off your neck by the G forces of excessive decelration .

[jjn9128]

jjn9128 I don't know what you're on about
The HANS as Tommy points out is there to stop your head from being pulled off your neck by the G forces of excessive decelration .

Is that not what I wrote...? My point, which you missed, being it is primarily designed to work in a single mode - head on impacts (up to ±30° as pointed out above).

[strad]

I agree but the one I wore limited my head tilting to either side.
Side note: Years ago when they first mandated helmets for motorcycles the deaths from head injuries did go down. However the deaths from broken necks went up to equal the previous head injury deaths. The manufactures figured out that as the head with the helmet on laid over sideways the bottom of the helmet acted as a lever to break a vertebra in the neck. They immediately redesigned the helmets and is why the CHP motorcycle officers are mandated to wear those helmets they call half helmets.

[subcritical71]

I agree but the one I wore limited my head tilting to either side.
Side note: Years ago when they first mandated helmets for motorcycles the deaths from head injuries did go down. However the deaths from broken necks went up to equal the previous head injury deaths. The manufactures figured out that as the head with the helmet on laid over sideways the bottom of the helmet acted as a lever to break a vertebra in the neck. They immediately redesigned the helmets and is why the CHP motorcycle officers are mandated to wear those helmets they call half helmets.

Interesting, makes sense! I guess it depends what type of impact you think your going to be involved in..

[zac510]

I quite enjoy in IndyCar the 200 seconds of extra boost (power) available throughout the race. Compared to DRS, the flexibility it offers - that it can be used on any part of the circuit and at any time of race (more or less) - is refreshing. It can be used for passes, defending, in corners or during under/overcut laps and comes with a sting if you use it too much. DRS is just a one trick pony.

I'm not totally fluent in the current F1 battery/rules, but perhaps the KERS and battery systems have enough capacity to deliver 200 seconds of extra power across a race distance without needing to be resized significantly?
I'm assuming that increasing the boost on F1 engines like IndyCar does would run them into fuel flow limit pretty quickly.

[Jolle]

I quite enjoy in IndyCar the 200 seconds of extra boost (power) available throughout the race. Compared to DRS, the flexibility it offers - that it can be used on any part of the circuit and at any time of race (more or less) - is refreshing. It can be used for passes, defending, in corners or during under/overcut laps and comes with a sting if you use it too much. DRS is just a one trick pony.

I'm not totally fluent in the current F1 battery/rules, but perhaps the KERS and battery systems have enough capacity to deliver 200 seconds of extra power across a race distance without needing to be resized significantly?
I'm assuming that increasing the boost on F1 engines like IndyCar does would run them into fuel flow limit pretty quickly.

F1 more or less has this, with their engine mapping and the limited availability of them for durability. All of them have a "push to pass" that for a few corners or straight boost the power too maximum. An additional boost would just be used like the ones we have now and most people won't even see it.

[zac510]

The Indycar is 40hp - are you sure that the mapping changes offers this much extra power? Of course maximum boost and fuel flow is limited in F1 so I guess it's on the less side of your more or less suggestion.

Which brings me back to my suggestion of using ERS. Everyone knows there is a lot of ERS energy that's wasted under the current regs. If they could just harvest a bit more and then allow it to be deployed as push-to-pass, that would be much more effective and would not affect durability of the ICE/TC.

[Jolle]

The Indycar is 40hp - are you sure that the mapping changes offers this much extra power? Of course maximum boost and fuel flow is limited in F1 so I guess it's on the less side of your more or less suggestion.

Which brings me back to my suggestion of using ERS. Everyone knows there is a lot of ERS energy that's wasted under the current regs. If they could just harvest a bit more and then allow it to be deployed as push-to-pass, that would be much more effective and would not affect durability of the ICE/TC.

F1 has way more than 40hp between modes. Even with their ERS deployment they can where to have extra or longer boost.
In F1 you have an certain amount of energy per lap, where you use that energy is less regulated. You can have a overtake mapping, where you use all the ERS and no recovery, open waste gates, etc etc, on one part of the track, etc etc. You see this in a race, where drivers have to recharge after an attack.

F1 is just a bit more complicated then Indy, with more freedom.

I personally don't want flashing lights on my screen that "driver one activated his Mario kart boost!"

[zac510]

Yes I'm aware of these things about how the mapping works. I suppose you are comparing a really lean fuel saving map compared to a qualifying map to come up with a 40hp range between settings. But you'd really want to compare the average map, the horsepower level that's most commonly used, to the overtake button level, to find an equivalent comparison to push to pass.

As you note there is that level of energy but it's restricted to being used in that lap only. An extra 200 seconds of energy to use freely throughout the race brings tactical possibilities (and failures). In yesterday's race at Sonoma a couple of drivers ran out of tyres and push to pass on the last lap and it created a good speed dynamic between the cars, in a way that we thought that F1 cars might run out of fuel or tyres but don't seem to.

Anyway, we already suffer a flashing light for Mario Kart DRS, which would be obsolete with push to pass. The IndyCar graphic for push to pass is just a discrete blue colour alongside the driver's name - nothing like Formula E! It's tolerable. F1's swooshing noises accompanying on-screen graphics are far worse.

I did a bit more research and found that it's ~60hp boost for the IndyCar. If you don't already, watch a bit of IndyCar. The commentary is 'different' but overall the racing is good and they don't at all throw yellows like NASCAR (which I also watch occasionally).

[Jolle]

Yes I'm aware of these things about how the mapping works. I suppose you are comparing a really lean fuel saving map compared to a qualifying map to come up with a 40hp range between settings. But you'd really want to compare the average map, the horsepower level that's most commonly used, to the overtake button level, to find an equivalent comparison to push to pass.

As you note there is that level of energy but it's restricted to being used in that lap only. An extra 200 seconds of energy to use freely throughout the race brings tactical possibilities (and failures). In yesterday's race at Sonoma a couple of drivers ran out of tyres and push to pass on the last lap and it created a good speed dynamic between the cars, in a way that we thought that F1 cars might run out of fuel or tyres but don't seem to.

Anyway, we already suffer a flashing light for Mario Kart DRS, which would be obsolete with push to pass. The IndyCar graphic for push to pass is just a discrete blue colour alongside the driver's name - nothing like Formula E! It's tolerable. F1's swooshing noises accompanying on-screen graphics are far worse.

I did a bit more research and found that it's ~60hp boost for the IndyCar. If you don't already, watch a bit of IndyCar. The commentary is 'different' but overall the racing is good and they don't at all throw yellows like NASCAR (which I also watch occasionally).

I do watch Indy car from time till time, but I don’t really like spec series. I like the technical challenge of F1. And even when I watch a spec serie, I rather watch F2 with young drivers then half the old F1 backmarkers.

[subcritical71]

I personally don't want flashing lights on my screen that "driver one activated his Mario kart boost!"

Formula E is over the top with its graphics, I don't like the feeling of being a video game. I like Indycars approach to Push To Pass vs. F1s DRS. In F1 the DRS makes one car a sitting duck while the Indycar allows (not as bad this year) and if the driver has managed his PTP properly a defense also.

[Dazed1]

I agree but the one I wore limited my head tilting to either side.
Side note: Years ago when they first mandated helmets for motorcycles the deaths from head injuries did go down. However the deaths from broken necks went up to equal the previous head injury deaths. The manufactures figured out that as the head with the helmet on laid over sideways the bottom of the helmet acted as a lever to break a vertebra in the neck. They immediately redesigned the helmets and is why the CHP motorcycle officers are mandated to wear those helmets they call half helmets.

Study destroys myth that motorcycle helmets break necks


https://www.med.wisc.edu/news-and-event ... eak-necks/

[strad]

that study was done AFTER they changed the helmets.
New York did an in depth study long before that, after deaths from head injuries did drop only to be passed by broken necks.
After that study the helmet manufacturers altered their designs. It was also after that that they started looking into ways to decrease the weight.

[Jolle]

I think a lot of the old "truths" about helmets (and seatbelts, etc etc) were not based on facts but pseudo-science to prove that the government told you what to do.

of course more deaths of broken neck after the introduction of the helmet, before that you died of having your brain splashed on the road, if you neck was also broken was not important.