PIRELLI 2020/2021 Tyre Thread

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GPR -A
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PIRELLI 2020/2021 Tyre Thread

Post by GPR -A » Wed Aug 14, 2019 9:38 am

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/tea ... 11050/amp/

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The FIA has sent a new Pirelli tyre target letter to all the Formula 1 teams, and is now awaiting feedback before its contents are frozen and it's signed off.

The letter covers both next year and 2021, the first season with the new 18-inch tyres that are a major part of the future rules package.

Following months of discussions all parties have agreed on three main targets of a wider working range, less overheating, and low degradation.

MtthsMlw
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Re: PIRELLI 2020/2021 Tyre Thread

Post by MtthsMlw » Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:01 am

wider working range, less overheating, and low degradation
and the year after that they get softer again to have more two stop races. The cycle continues.
In the great races we had so far this season tyres didn't degrade much and drivers could push hard without overheating. With wheel to wheel fights all race long one doesn't think about the need to have more than one stop.
All in for 2017 tyres with a slightly higher working range to help smaller teams (Ferrari) hit the window.

Just_a_fan
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Re: PIRELLI 2020/2021 Tyre Thread

Post by Just_a_fan » Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:56 am

F1 just needs tyres that can be pushed for their entire stint, and which don't benefit or hamper any team. The tyres shouldn't decide the outcome, in other words.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

SiLo
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Re: PIRELLI 2020/2021 Tyre Thread

Post by SiLo » Wed Aug 14, 2019 12:02 pm

Just_a_fan wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:56 am
F1 just needs tyres that can be pushed for their entire stint, and which don't benefit or hamper any team. The tyres shouldn't decide the outcome, in other words.
Building a car that utilises the tyres well is part of F1.
Felipe Baby!

izzy
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Re: PIRELLI 2020/2021 Tyre Thread

Post by izzy » Wed Aug 14, 2019 12:06 pm

For this year Pirelli made them less prone to overheating and blistering yet more prone to wearing out, which is ideal. That's how the last race was so good, for example: Lewis could pressure Max. into wearing his tyres out faster. Perfect racing! Skill, strategy, execution.

'Low degradation' sounds like bad races to me: the cars start in speed order, so if the tyres are all the same all race they'll just go round and round in order won't they!! :roll:

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Re: PIRELLI 2020/2021 Tyre Thread

Post by izzy » Wed Aug 14, 2019 12:08 pm

The 18" look great don't they, I can't wait to see them on the cars

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Re: PIRELLI 2020/2021 Tyre Thread

Post by izzy » Wed Aug 14, 2019 12:10 pm

SiLo wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 12:02 pm
Building a car that utilises the tyres well is part of F1.
yes I 100% agree. It's satisfying to me that, after all, 200 people and a kit car aren't enough to succeed in F1

digitalrurouni
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Re: PIRELLI 2020/2021 Tyre Thread

Post by digitalrurouni » Wed Aug 14, 2019 2:11 pm

I agree. This year's tires I have no complaints about. I am sure the drivers will always whinge and whine that they can't push but they also are doing fuel saving so it's not entirely always the tires are to be blamed. Stick with the thinner gauge tires and provide a bit more grip if possible out of the compounds.

GPR -A
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Re: PIRELLI 2020/2021 Tyre Thread

Post by GPR -A » Wed Aug 14, 2019 2:16 pm

digitalrurouni wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 2:11 pm
I agree. This year's tires I have no complaints about. I am sure the drivers will always whinge and whine that they can't push but they also are doing fuel saving so it's not entirely always the tires are to be blamed. Stick with the thinner gauge tires and provide a bit more grip if possible out of the compounds.
I am not exactly sure, but I guess with 18 inch wheels, there is going to be more than or equal to 40% less rubber. This is going to be big change and causes less heat being maintained in rubber, which has the potential to disrupt the way cars are going to corner.

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SiLo
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Re: PIRELLI 2020/2021 Tyre Thread

Post by SiLo » Wed Aug 14, 2019 4:23 pm

Wouldnt it make it easier to maintain and generate heat? A lot of the problems the teams have these days is keeping the entire carcass at temp, but with about 40% less of it to worry about, this shouldn't be an issue?
Felipe Baby!

roon
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Re: PIRELLI 2020/2021 Tyre Thread

Post by roon » Wed Aug 14, 2019 4:46 pm

I would think so. The wheel based thermal control, the heat sinks, the surface area of the spokes and barrel, all increase. Suspension control increases to the extent that the tire sidewall is shorter and air volume is reduced.

Just_a_fan
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Re: PIRELLI 2020/2021 Tyre Thread

Post by Just_a_fan » Wed Aug 14, 2019 4:54 pm

SiLo wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 12:02 pm
Just_a_fan wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:56 am
F1 just needs tyres that can be pushed for their entire stint, and which don't benefit or hamper any team. The tyres shouldn't decide the outcome, in other words.
Building a car that utilises the tyres well is part of F1.
Oh, I agree but the tyres shouldn't be so narrow in their operating window that teams effectively luck-in or luck-out. We've seen teams being able to "switch on" the tyres at one track but not at another - we've seen two drivers with the same car get different results from the same tyre at the same track. My view is the tyre is a control tyre: being able to use it correctly should not be a matter of luck/driving style. All should be avle to use it but if some can find exta from it then fair enough.

I think the tyre design should allow both single stop and two stop to be equally effective. Ie you can go medium-hard or soft-soft-medium and have the same total race elapsed time. So teams can play with strategy. That adds interest and possibilities whilst not being "artificial", if that makes sense.

If a tyre selection e.g. medium-hard is noticeably quicker than the next selection, everyone will generally go with that selection.

Hungary was interesting because a different strategy was possible - although it was marginal and did require the car to do it. But car differences occur throughout the field so being able to "roll the dice" should be possible and tyres able to facilitate it.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

izzy
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Re: PIRELLI 2020/2021 Tyre Thread

Post by izzy » Wed Aug 14, 2019 5:15 pm

Just_a_fan wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 4:54 pm
Oh, I agree but the tyres shouldn't be so narrow in their operating window that teams effectively luck-in or luck-out. We've seen teams being able to "switch on" the tyres at one track but not at another - we've seen two drivers with the same car get different results from the same tyre at the same track. My view is the tyre is a control tyre: being able to use it correctly should not be a matter of luck/driving style. All should be avle to use it but if some can find exta from it then fair enough.

I think the tyre design should allow both single stop and two stop to be equally effective. Ie you can go medium-hard or soft-soft-medium and have the same total race elapsed time. So teams can play with strategy. That adds interest and possibilities whilst not being "artificial", if that makes sense.

If a tyre selection e.g. medium-hard is noticeably quicker than the next selection, everyone will generally go with that selection.

Hungary was interesting because a different strategy was possible - although it was marginal and did require the car to do it. But car differences occur throughout the field so being able to "roll the dice" should be possible and tyres able to facilitate it.
I don't think it's luck really. It's a mystery to Günther, cos he hardly has any engineers, but the others more or less have it understood. Mercedes got the jump on everybody last winter by being that bit smarter, racing the sensors they needed to test with, so they learned they needed lots of downforce. For the others it's just a perfect racing-driver excuse. It's rather like 2014 when only Mercedes had worked out the best turbo was a huge truck turbo and then everyone was whining about 'the hybrids' when actually it was just one team being smarter.
I think the tyre design should allow both single stop and two stop to be equally effective. Ie you can go medium-hard or soft-soft-medium and have the same total race elapsed time.
Isn't this missing the idea? The shortest elapsed time should be achieved by being the best team, engineering, strategy and driving. That was the beauty of Hungary, that the team did loads of analysis, as James explains , and combined with Lewis that produced a faster race time not the same race time.

GPR -A
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Re: PIRELLI 2020/2021 Tyre Thread

Post by GPR -A » Wed Aug 14, 2019 5:26 pm

SiLo wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 4:23 pm
Wouldnt it make it easier to maintain and generate heat? A lot of the problems the teams have these days is keeping the entire carcass at temp, but with about 40% less of it to worry about, this shouldn't be an issue?
Current generation tyres keep more heat and that means, going through a straight they cool down less. But with less rubber, the car can heat them faster, but they lose heat faster too. That means the car arrives in a corner with a lot more colder tyres than today. Taht is my theory and may be I am wrong.

Just_a_fan
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Re: PIRELLI 2020/2021 Tyre Thread

Post by Just_a_fan » Wed Aug 14, 2019 9:15 pm

izzy wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 5:15 pm
Just_a_fan wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 4:54 pm

I think the tyre design should allow both single stop and two stop to be equally effective. Ie you can go medium-hard or soft-soft-medium and have the same total race elapsed time.
Isn't this missing the idea? The shortest elapsed time should be achieved by being the best team, engineering, strategy and driving. That was the beauty of Hungary, that the team did loads of analysis, as James explains , and combined with Lewis that produced a faster race time not the same race time.
No, I fear you miss my point. The tyre strategy should give equal time thus the team and driver need to make the difference. This was the case in Hungary because the combination of Hamilton and car was able to make it work. Other drivers / cars wouldn't have done so. But it would be nice if they could. That gives options and thus variability which leads to interest and thus happy fans.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"