Silly Season 2020/2021 (starting with silliness in 2019)

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Zarathustra
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Re: Silly Season 2020/2021 (starting with silliness in 2019)

Post by Zarathustra » Wed Aug 21, 2019 8:49 pm

DChemTech wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 8:27 pm
Zarathustra wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 8:08 pm
How about:

Ocon to Renault
Hulkenberg back to ‘Stroll racing’
Perez to Haas

?
Perez is already close to extending with the Strollators, right? I expect him to stay where he is. He knows the people well, and the team won't hold him back. Even if Sir Lancealot is first driver on paper, as long as Perez typically outperforms him, it should not lead to conflict - issues may occur if Lance gets closer though.
But a Mexican driving for an American team- not really a bad combination, is it?

izzy
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Re: Silly Season 2020/2021 (starting with silliness in 2019)

Post by izzy » Wed Aug 21, 2019 9:07 pm

Zarathustra wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 8:49 pm

But a Mexican driving for an American team- not really a bad combination, is it?
yes Checo might be ready to move mightn't he. The big teams don't want him as things are, and he's not going to impress them by beating Lance. This is his 6th year with the team and drivers are often ready for a change by then. From Haas' point of view he has been silly from time to time but he's a lot more sensible than Kmag or Romain, he does finish races, he'd be a good upgrade

DChemTech
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Re: Silly Season 2020/2021 (starting with silliness in 2019)

Post by DChemTech » Wed Aug 21, 2019 9:22 pm

From a Haas point of view I agree - I'd take Perez (as well as Hulkenberg) over their current drivers in a heartbeat.

selvam_e2002
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Re: Silly Season 2020/2021 (starting with silliness in 2019)

Post by selvam_e2002 » Thu Aug 22, 2019 4:28 am

Phil wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 4:49 pm
If they did indeed sign Bottas for next year, expect Mercedes to make a big push for Verstappen for 2021. The good thing about Bottas is that there is no pressure to sign him for more than a yearly renewal.
I suspect the same a year ago. Max will not be with RB for 2021 at any cost, if he tend to leave, the only option for RB is Vettel come back. I suspect it will happen next year itself. They need a experienced driver to develop 2021 car.

GPR -A
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Re: Silly Season 2020/2021 (starting with silliness in 2019)

Post by GPR -A » Thu Aug 22, 2019 5:23 am

selvam_e2002 wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 4:28 am
Phil wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 4:49 pm
If they did indeed sign Bottas for next year, expect Mercedes to make a big push for Verstappen for 2021. The good thing about Bottas is that there is no pressure to sign him for more than a yearly renewal.
I suspect the same a year ago. Max will not be with RB for 2021 at any cost, if he tend to leave, the only option for RB is Vettel come back. I suspect it will happen next year itself. They need a experienced driver to develop 2021 car.
There is every possibility that, Lewis will remain until 2022, an extension for another two years.

For 2020, if RB Honda makes as quick a progress as they have done this year, they will be fighting Mercedes for championship. In such a scenario, even if Mercedes tries hard to pull him, Max will have the dilemma of making the right choice.

The only way Mercedes can pull him, is to put out a dominant car in 2020 that leaves no doubt in Max's mind as to which is the right team. By summer next year, if Mercedes manages to keep half a second advantage over RB Honda, then Max is off to Mercedes, even if it means, pairing with Lewis.

DChemTech
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Re: Silly Season 2020/2021 (starting with silliness in 2019)

Post by DChemTech » Thu Aug 22, 2019 7:58 am

selvam_e2002 wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 4:28 am
Phil wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 4:49 pm
If they did indeed sign Bottas for next year, expect Mercedes to make a big push for Verstappen for 2021. The good thing about Bottas is that there is no pressure to sign him for more than a yearly renewal.
I suspect the same a year ago. Max will not be with RB for 2021 at any cost, if he tend to leave, the only option for RB is Vettel come back. I suspect it will happen next year itself. They need a experienced driver to develop 2021 car.
I've seen you make similar statements on several occasions now as if they're absolutely certain - but they're just wishful thinking from your side. You don't want Max to be at RB at any cost.

Thing is, there is very little incentive for him to change teams. With the current progress of Honda, the trust the team puts in him, and the upcoming regulation changes potentially stirring up the field anyway, he'd be best off starting that new era in a familiar, well oiled team. I strongly expect he stays where he is, and would find it a questionable decision if not.

Bill
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Re: Silly Season 2020/2021 (starting with silliness in 2019)

Post by Bill » Thu Aug 22, 2019 8:19 am

Mercedes in terms of power have been caught by Ferrari and Honda in fact them and Renault want an engine freeze because they no longer have an overwhelming advantage Renault on the other hand knows that they can't keep up . The only question for for Max is can Redbull provide him with a chassis that is better than Mercedes the answer is a resounding yes Newey delivers most of the time.

Big Tea
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Re: Silly Season 2020/2021 (starting with silliness in 2019)

Post by Big Tea » Thu Aug 22, 2019 11:10 am

selvam_e2002 wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 4:28 am
Phil wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 4:49 pm
If they did indeed sign Bottas for next year, expect Mercedes to make a big push for Verstappen for 2021. The good thing about Bottas is that there is no pressure to sign him for more than a yearly renewal.
I suspect the same a year ago. Max will not be with RB for 2021 at any cost, if he tend to leave, the only option for RB is Vettel come back. I suspect it will happen next year itself. They need a experienced driver to develop 2021 car.
That is assuming the Red Bull Honda will not be the car to beat in 2021. It could well turn out to be the one everyone wants. Max V Lewis at Max's home?
One test is worth a thousand expert opinions

Bill
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Re: Silly Season 2020/2021 (starting with silliness in 2019)

Post by Bill » Thu Aug 22, 2019 11:43 am

Forget 2021 Redbull Honda will be the team to beat after italy gp . Spec 4 would bring 3 tenth another major upgrade from Redbull could bring anywhere from 2 to five tenth plus a fuel upgrade. Existing times lies ahead. Remember Mercedes brought their big package in Germany and Rbr could keep up with them.no similar big updates is expected from merc focus is on 2020.

ubuysa
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Re: Silly Season 2020/2021 (starting with silliness in 2019)

Post by ubuysa » Thu Aug 22, 2019 11:52 am

Deleted. Mis-posted.



Big Tea
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Re: Silly Season 2020/2021 (starting with silliness in 2019)

Post by Big Tea » Thu Aug 22, 2019 11:54 am

Bill wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 11:43 am
Forget 2021 Redbull Honda will be the team to beat after italy gp . Spec 4 would bring 3 tenth another major upgrade from Redbull could bring anywhere from 2 to five tenth plus a fuel upgrade. Existing times lies ahead. Remember Mercedes brought their big package in Germany and Rbr could keep up with them.no similar big updates is expected from merc focus is on 2020.
I hope you are right,(for the show) but, so far Honda have been playing catch-up. Once they have parity, they will be braking new ground, which is always harder, and Mercedes is not going to be standing still either.
One test is worth a thousand expert opinions

GPR -A
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Re: Silly Season 2020/2021 (starting with silliness in 2019)

Post by GPR -A » Thu Aug 22, 2019 12:06 pm

Bill wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 11:43 am
Forget 2021 Redbull Honda will be the team to beat after italy gp . Spec 4 would bring 3 tenth another major upgrade from Redbull could bring anywhere from 2 to five tenth plus a fuel upgrade. Existing times lies ahead. Remember Mercedes brought their big package in Germany and Rbr could keep up with them.no similar big updates is expected from merc focus is on 2020.
You sound like some of the Ferrari fans, the way they spoke in 2015, when they made such tall claims after Malaysian GP.

By their own admission, Mercedes said their car wasn't as fast as they expected it to be, which means, there is more optimization required to bring the performance out from that package. In Hungary, Mercedes was clearly the fastest car and you only have to look at how fast Lewis erased the 6 seconds gap in 3 or 4 laps after the first pit stops to be on Max's tail. It's one thing to be excited and it's another to be irrational.

With the kind of points lead they have this season, if Mercedes shifts their focus to 2020 and others continue to put energy into current season, it's only a bad news for 2020 for those teams. While they would wrap up the championship with the current car, without much hassle, Mercedes would once again appear in Melbourne with more than half a second pace advantage. It's always a compromise like McLaren did last year. They switched their focus to 2019, while ending 2018 as the second last team, only to appear as the best of mid-field in 2019. There is always a value to switch focus early to next year and at this point, Mercedes can afford to do that, leaving Red Bull to enjoy the last part of this season, unless RB also wants to focus on 2020.

Bill
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Re: Silly Season 2020/2021 (starting with silliness in 2019)

Post by Bill » Thu Aug 22, 2019 12:28 pm

You can't compare Redbull and Ferrari.Rebull always has a great chassis even when Mercedes was winning Rbr could lay claim to having a great let down by rubbish engine that why the always wins in Monaco and Mexico. Redbull always comes good in the second half of a season and their development has been better than others. You don't expect them to make ass clown errors behind the pit. Mercedes for the first time would have a credible competitor since the hybrid era Max has scored more points than any driver during the last four races it could be more if Vettel didn't happen and I expect the trend to continue

GPR -A
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Re: Silly Season 2020/2021 (starting with silliness in 2019)

Post by GPR -A » Thu Aug 22, 2019 2:04 pm

Bill wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 12:28 pm
that why the always wins in Monaco and Mexico.
It's design philosophy difference. Mercedes used to categorize the full calendar into three buckets, where one is high speed, low drag circuits like Spa and Monza, the second one is medium downforce, high speed circuits like China, Bahrain, Malaysia, USA, Japan and others, the third one is the street circuits like Monaco and Singapore. Mercedes design philosophy looked at the first two buckets and created a car that goes well on those circuits, whereas Red Bull always created car for Monaco and Singapore. Essentially, Mercedes were not choosing to bolt on every bit of downforce, instead managed to balance drag vs downforce. It's all design philosophy, where a compromise need to be made, not because Red Bull chassis was any superior than Mercedes.

The reason why Red Bull worked in Mexico was because of high altitude with thin air that used to reduce the efficiency of Mercedes and Renault engine used to come on par. Red Bull had much better low speed performance (more to do with mechanical grip and traction) until last year Singapore, where Mercedes brought some upgrades and enhanced it for this year that has allowed them to make a march in Singapore last year and Spain (S3) and Monaco this year. Mexico's S3 is where Red Bull used to win when the PU power used to get balanced. With Honda as a partner and Mercedes having found fix for their low speed performance, will Mexico remain a Red Bull territory? We will see.
Bill wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 12:28 pm
Redbull always comes good in the second half of a season and their development has been better than others.
It's relative. Mercedes has established to be potentially the best developers mid season and Red Bull has a history of going deep into the season, developing the car and compromising the next year's car, which makes them slow at the beginning of season. Again, a compromise that teams choose. Ferrari has the trend of coming out with a great car at the beginning of the season, but wane off with inefficiency of developing the car through the season.
Bill wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 12:28 pm
You don't expect them to make ass clown errors behind the pit. Mercedes for the first time would have a credible competitor since the hybrid era Max has scored more points than any driver during the last four races it could be more if Vettel didn't happen and I expect the trend to continue
6 years is a life time for competitors to catch up. What's special about it. Max has more points because of Austria's unusual temperatures where Mercedes got their cooling calculations wrong and Lewis bottled it in Germany, not because the Red Bull car is somehow better than Mercedes. Max did better a better job in those situations.

SiLo
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Re: Silly Season 2020/2021 (starting with silliness in 2019)

Post by SiLo » Thu Aug 22, 2019 2:38 pm

I'm quite certain mercedes are bringing Spec 3 of their engine soon too aren't they? Anyway, talk of car performance is off topic.

I don't think much will change really until 2021, then there will be some big moves.
Felipe Baby!