2019 Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

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Big Tea
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Re: 2019 Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by Big Tea » Mon Sep 09, 2019 10:15 pm

SmallSoldier wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 9:34 pm
Big Tea wrote:They need (realistic) targets. Just some vague notion of improving is not a tangible thing. They know what they need to do to keep 4th, estimating the gap to 5th place is a poke in the ribs if they snooze.

This also carries over to next year when they must improve. Improving from 5th to forth would be far easier
I don’t think there is a vague notion of improvement... Both qualifying and race pace have considerably improved over previous season, but more important their improvement compared to their rivals is also larger.

From one lap pace, to race pace and even points scored, this season is tangibly better than the last one... If the target was to improve versus the previous season(s), then so far is mission accomplished.

I’m sure their stretch target is to finish 4th (frosting on the cake) and they even have a chance to place Carlos in P6 in the drivers standings... Both would be great accomplishments, but if not achieved it wouldn’t take away from what is so far a good season for the team.


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Its like having exams in school. Without a target no one knows exactly where they stand.
Are they putting the work in the right place to get results, are they moving compared to teams above and below them etc. Having a 'result' is a boost for everyone. Just knowing they are better than last year may give them a warm glow, but actually getting a number is proof. Not that proof is really required, but I don't know about you, but I get on with something in a much better frame mind if I can see actual progress measured against an actual target than if I just think to my self I am getting on with it OK.

Its not just the team trackside, but the factory, sub suppliers even sponsors. Even if there is no actual value in it, it makes them feel better, which usually gives positive results,
One test is worth a thousand expert opinions

genarro
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Re: 2019 Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by genarro » Tue Sep 10, 2019 7:56 am

i think monza and spa didnt suit our car (low df tracks) and i think that when teams start to put df back on the cars they will be better than renault and everyone else

McG
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Re: 2019 Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by McG » Tue Sep 10, 2019 10:12 am

Jolle wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 12:38 pm
Emag wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 10:32 am
Am I the only one that doesn't care much for that 4th place? If giving that up means that McLaren will be closer to the top next year then I'll gladly take it. Sure the prize money would be nice, but I am certain McLaren is not struggling for money right now. Keeping 4th is more of a redemption for McLaren, but I think they already have surprised people this year. If they lose out to Renault because of bad luck and bad reliability of the engine, that doesn't really make them look bad.
Well.... their parent group isn't in the best of state, more and more loans need to be refinanced after they initial startup from McLaren automotive and the stock buy back last year from Dennis. They started selling of their heritage cars to close the financial gaps of the race team. From memory they need around one billion pounds in new loans the coming years. Their financial status is just around the zero point (what you have owe in loans and what you own in buildings, orders, parts, stock). They can't afford any mishaps or something like recession.
Nonsense. Taking a loan actually increased the value of the company which is now more streamlined. McLaren also have a seat on the F1 board.

Oh and the F1 team are benefiting from all of this and the future looks very promising.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.ft.com ... 55f264aa8b

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes ... -seat/amp/

Big Tea
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Re: 2019 Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by Big Tea » Tue Sep 10, 2019 11:37 am

McG wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 10:12 am
Jolle wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 12:38 pm
Emag wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 10:32 am
Am I the only one that doesn't care much for that 4th place? If giving that up means that McLaren will be closer to the top next year then I'll gladly take it. Sure the prize money would be nice, but I am certain McLaren is not struggling for money right now. Keeping 4th is more of a redemption for McLaren, but I think they already have surprised people this year. If they lose out to Renault because of bad luck and bad reliability of the engine, that doesn't really make them look bad.
Well.... their parent group isn't in the best of state, more and more loans need to be refinanced after they initial startup from McLaren automotive and the stock buy back last year from Dennis. They started selling of their heritage cars to close the financial gaps of the race team. From memory they need around one billion pounds in new loans the coming years. Their financial status is just around the zero point (what you have owe in loans and what you own in buildings, orders, parts, stock). They can't afford any mishaps or something like recession.
Nonsense. Taking a loan actually increased the value of the company which is now more streamlined. McLaren also have a seat on the F1 board.

Oh and the F1 team are benefiting from all of this and the future looks very promising.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.ft.com ... 55f264aa8b

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes ... -seat/amp/
Getting a loan usually shows there is life in the company, or they would not get it. People who loan money want some profit from it and will not back a dead horse.
One test is worth a thousand expert opinions

_cerber1
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Re: 2019 Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by _cerber1 » Tue Sep 10, 2019 11:56 am

Guys, let's get back to racing? [-o<

mwillems
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Re: 2019 Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by mwillems » Tue Sep 10, 2019 4:44 pm

According to Mclarens accounts, I recall a debt under £500m. It may have been £450m against an income between £1.2b and £1.3b. This was from their 2018 accounts and for the whole group.

Not all of the latifi funds were paid last year but I dont recall how much was paid and how much was yet to pay.

Obviously it is not a great position to be in, but not terrible.

Jolle
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Re: 2019 Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by Jolle » Tue Sep 10, 2019 4:56 pm

mwillems wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 4:44 pm
According to Mclarens accounts, I recall a debt under £500m. It may have been £450m against an income between £1.2b and £1.3b. This was from their 2018 accounts and for the whole group.

Not all of the latifi funds were paid last year but I dont recall how much was paid and how much was yet to pay.

Obviously it is not a great position to be in, but not terrible.
Automotive alone has a rise from around 550mln to 720mln of creditors which fall free within a year (which have to be re-financed this year), plus the net loss of around 130mln over 2018, makes it close to a billion that they need to find.

The Mclaren group has a credit that needs to be refinanced within a year (from 2018) of 671 mln and for more than a year: 590 mln pounds. and an operating loss of 80 mln pounds.

These businesses normally finance their investments short term, to get the best deal. When the business goes well, they can refinance it against a low rate, when it goes bad, they have to pay a premium. This was for instance the reason that Gibson (The guitar brand) went belly up. They were in the red, around 500mln US dollars of credit needed to be refinanced and the company was downgraded, so they wouldn't be able to even pay the interest.

mwillems
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Re: 2019 Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by mwillems » Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:03 pm

Jolle wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 4:56 pm
mwillems wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 4:44 pm
According to Mclarens accounts, I recall a debt under £500m. It may have been £450m against an income between £1.2b and £1.3b. This was from their 2018 accounts and for the whole group.

Not all of the latifi funds were paid last year but I dont recall how much was paid and how much was yet to pay.

Obviously it is not a great position to be in, but not terrible.
Automotive alone has a rise from around 550mln to 720mln of creditors which fall free within a year (which have to be re-financed this year), plus the net loss of around 130mln over 2018, makes it close to a billion that they need to find.

The Mclaren group has a credit that needs to be refinanced within a year (from 2018) of 671 mln and for more than a year: 590 mln pounds. and an operating loss of 80 mln pounds.

These businesses normally finance their investments short term, to get the best deal. When the business goes well, they can refinance it against a low rate, when it goes bad, they have to pay a premium. This was for instance the reason that Gibson (The guitar brand) went belly up. They were in the red, around 500mln US dollars of credit needed to be refinanced and the company was downgraded, so they wouldn't be able to even pay the interest.
Do you have a source for this? Would be an interesting read.

Jolle
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Re: 2019 Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by Jolle » Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:08 pm

mwillems wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:03 pm
Jolle wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 4:56 pm
mwillems wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 4:44 pm
According to Mclarens accounts, I recall a debt under £500m. It may have been £450m against an income between £1.2b and £1.3b. This was from their 2018 accounts and for the whole group.

Not all of the latifi funds were paid last year but I dont recall how much was paid and how much was yet to pay.

Obviously it is not a great position to be in, but not terrible.
Automotive alone has a rise from around 550mln to 720mln of creditors which fall free within a year (which have to be re-financed this year), plus the net loss of around 130mln over 2018, makes it close to a billion that they need to find.

The Mclaren group has a credit that needs to be refinanced within a year (from 2018) of 671 mln and for more than a year: 590 mln pounds. and an operating loss of 80 mln pounds.

These businesses normally finance their investments short term, to get the best deal. When the business goes well, they can refinance it against a low rate, when it goes bad, they have to pay a premium. This was for instance the reason that Gibson (The guitar brand) went belly up. They were in the red, around 500mln US dollars of credit needed to be refinanced and the company was downgraded, so they wouldn't be able to even pay the interest.
Do you have a source for this? Would be an interesting read.
at the UK company house, you can see financial statements of many companies.

_cerber1
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Re: 2019 Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by _cerber1 » Tue Sep 10, 2019 7:00 pm


Andres125sx
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Re: 2019 Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by Andres125sx » Tue Sep 10, 2019 8:31 pm

Did you notice mechanics gloves at 5:42? It looks like a reinforcement to prevent excessive bend but they look quite bulky

M840TR
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Re: 2019 Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by M840TR » Tue Sep 10, 2019 9:10 pm

Andres125sx wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 8:31 pm
Did you notice mechanics gloves at 5:42? It looks like a reinforcement to prevent excessive bend but they look quite bulky
The gun's torque takes a toll on the wrist. An untrained pair of hands can easily fracture as well. Not surprised.

McG
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Re: 2019 Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by McG » Wed Sep 11, 2019 12:03 am

_cerber1 wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 11:56 am
Guys, let's get back to racing? [-o<
Eh, this thread isn't just about the racing. There is an appropriate thread if racing is all you want to talk about.

McG
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Re: 2019 Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by McG » Wed Sep 11, 2019 12:07 am

mwillems wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:03 pm
Jolle wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 4:56 pm
mwillems wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 4:44 pm
According to Mclarens accounts, I recall a debt under £500m. It may have been £450m against an income between £1.2b and £1.3b. This was from their 2018 accounts and for the whole group.

Not all of the latifi funds were paid last year but I dont recall how much was paid and how much was yet to pay.

Obviously it is not a great position to be in, but not terrible.
Automotive alone has a rise from around 550mln to 720mln of creditors which fall free within a year (which have to be re-financed this year), plus the net loss of around 130mln over 2018, makes it close to a billion that they need to find.

The Mclaren group has a credit that needs to be refinanced within a year (from 2018) of 671 mln and for more than a year: 590 mln pounds. and an operating loss of 80 mln pounds.

These businesses normally finance their investments short term, to get the best deal. When the business goes well, they can refinance it against a low rate, when it goes bad, they have to pay a premium. This was for instance the reason that Gibson (The guitar brand) went belly up. They were in the red, around 500mln US dollars of credit needed to be refinanced and the company was downgraded, so they wouldn't be able to even pay the interest.
Do you have a source for this? Would be an interesting read.
A link for his own conjecture pulled from thin air? Lol

mwillems
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Re: 2019 Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by mwillems » Wed Sep 11, 2019 12:51 am

McG wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 12:07 am
mwillems wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:03 pm
Jolle wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 4:56 pm


Automotive alone has a rise from around 550mln to 720mln of creditors which fall free within a year (which have to be re-financed this year), plus the net loss of around 130mln over 2018, makes it close to a billion that they need to find.

The Mclaren group has a credit that needs to be refinanced within a year (from 2018) of 671 mln and for more than a year: 590 mln pounds. and an operating loss of 80 mln pounds.

These businesses normally finance their investments short term, to get the best deal. When the business goes well, they can refinance it against a low rate, when it goes bad, they have to pay a premium. This was for instance the reason that Gibson (The guitar brand) went belly up. They were in the red, around 500mln US dollars of credit needed to be refinanced and the company was downgraded, so they wouldn't be able to even pay the interest.
Do you have a source for this? Would be an interesting read.
A link for his own conjecture pulled from thin air? Lol
I just had a look and this was the report I had seen. It is for last year and is the latest set of accounts, so I'm not sure where this additional information, and debt, have come from.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... Cs8B6ujUzt