2019 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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Bisonas
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Joined: 01 Feb 2015, 11:56

Re: 2019 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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Once more all the early drama caused by Ferrari it self.
Ferrari could have swap them during the pits, as they did eventually, and avoid all that drama.

Vettel wasn't faster. He was just first on clean air.
He was right not to slow down for letting Leclerc pass because he would loose 1-2 seconds to Hamilton . No reason to do that or Ferrari to order it.
The reasoning that Leclerc should be more close to let him pass, was mind games from Vettel. Playing it smart. But was a rubbish reason.
Not loosing time to Hamilton yea i respect, Leclerc was not close enough was tactics.

Leclerc after early SC stayed stayed for 2 laps within 1 sec and another 2 laps to 1.3 sec from Vettel. For those 4 laps Leclerc was already taking more life out of the tyres than Vettel did.
When Vettel told the world he should get closer, it was like telling him, spend 1-2 laps to come within 0.5 destroy your tyres even more, so when i let you by, at some point i feel like doing it, i will demonstrate how fast i am behind you and moan that you are too slow.

Leclerc was right not to try to get too close to Vettel. He was already taken life out of the tyres and the whole strategy was about extending the stint as much as possible. He would be compromising his strategy even more, if he had done what Vettel wanted him to do.
He was frustrated because they obvious had a deal and because the frustration was building up from Singapore.

Ferrari put both of them on a unnecessary state of mind. Leclerc more than Vettel if you ask me.
They could have said from the beginning , keep a gap to each other, save the tyres , extend as much as possible go as fast as possible, and we swap on the undercut or l8r.

I don't know why they keep doing this to them selves.
Last edited by Bisonas on 29 Sep 2019, 18:59, edited 1 time in total.

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MtthsMlw
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Re: 2019 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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On the technical side it seemed to be an issue with the CE, not the first time this season they had problems with it. Vettel has 3 in his pool, one damaged, one with a flaw and one still working.
He could avoid a penalty though.

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dans79
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Re: 2019 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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MtthsMlw wrote:
29 Sep 2019, 20:13
On the technical side it seemed to be an issue with the CE, not the first time this season they had problems with it. Vettel has 3 in his pool, one damaged, one with a flaw and one still working.
He could avoid a penalty though.
It will be interesting to see if he can make it through the rest of the season without taking a penalty. I wonder if he'll have to run reduced modes.
197 104 103 7

wickedz50
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Re: 2019 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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GPR -A wrote:
29 Sep 2019, 18:19
Gary Anderson said a couple of years back that, "For Ferrari, everything is a surprise!". It continues to be true. The ability to think and handle dynamic situations is almost NIL. Binotto's close alliance with Vettel is stopping him from making hard racing decisions and their strategy team is not as decisive as James Vowels at Mercedes is. Vettel is a racing driver and he would be driven by his instincts to make good use of any opportunity that comes his way. If he can't be that, then he should sit at home.

As a racing driver, he did what any hard core racing driver would have in both Singapore and in Sochi. He is definitely not the same Vettel that he was in his Red Bull years and seems to have lost a bit of that edge in qualifying and Leclerc is top notch and he is doing what Vettel used to do in Red Bull. Every top racing driver, moving in his 30s loses a bit of one lap pace and Hamilton currently is an exception.

Ferrari have done an excellent job once again after 2017, in terms of having a car that is clearly the class of the field and a young driver who is doing full justice to what the car deserves. But they continue to be ordinary in terms of racing operations. They can't be so naive in handling these situations if they really want to win the championships. For now, it would be OK as they are not contenders for any title, but for next year, they should bring an UPGRADE in the racing skills.

You have summarized the situation in such a short way, Ferrari strategist r so immature, passing key info on team radio, whatever be LeClercs issue please discuss in private,

gshevlin
gshevlin
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Re: 2019 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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The biggest enemy of flexible and effective race strategies are pre-arrangements between drivers, with or without the consent of the team. History shows that those arrangements are routinely broken or ignored, since once the red lights go out, every race car driver becomes a uniquely selfish individual. Whether or not Sebastian Vettel agreed to any pre-race deal is almost irrelevant. With the race under way, and with him in the lead and lapping faster than anybody else, including his team-mate, his racer DNA took over. Why should he give up the lead? Hell no.

LM10
LM10
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Re: 2019 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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Ferrari should have not made that arrangement in the first place. Vettel would have overtaken Hamilton without slipstream quite easily as well. Just tell the drivers to be cautious and don't crash into each other and let them race. Telling one driver not to fight his teammate into turn 1 with the promise to get that place back is not racing. Or, if you want to plan such a thing, first wait and see how things develop in the beginning phase of the race.
Today, Vettel was the clearly faster driver. Leclerc was in clean air, but still couldn't manage the same pace as his teammate. Why, in the name of god, should the faster driver then give his place to the slower driver? What's more, Vettel would have lost a couple of seconds to Hamilton because when the team wanted them to swap, Hamilton was only like 2-3 seconds behind. Solving it by pit strategy was just the tip of embarrassment.

I don't blame the drivers. I can understand that both want to win. That's in the DNA of a racing driver. Those who need to be blamed are the team. Yet again, an awful strategic performance.

selvam_e2002
selvam_e2002
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Re: 2019 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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why it is burning in Soci? Lecrec did same thing to Vettel in Bharin now its time for Vettel to give back. I don't see any issue with it.

As LM10 said above, it is Ferrari team principle Mr. Binotto should take strong decision but he is not doing that. Seems he is not good team manager. It is causing problem within the drivers.

I don't see they learned the lesson. Life is a circle, the same situation can happen to Lecrec down the line with another young driver.

Interesting to watch 2020 Ferrari if Vettel stays back.

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Jambier
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Re: 2019 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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Do you think they can keep Vettel ?

- He doesn't respect the start agreement.
- MGU K fails, they asked him to go to pits.. instead is creating a SC making LEC lose.

I mean, the guy is not a very talented driver, he makes many mistakes, manage to lose 2018, now is beaten by his teamate and do not respect anymore any order by the team

On top of that, he cost a huge amount of money for the team

tpeman
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Re: 2019 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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Jambier wrote:
30 Sep 2019, 09:30
Do you think they can keep Vettel ?

- He doesn't respect the start agreement.
- MGU K fails, they asked him to go to pits.. instead is creating a SC making LEC lose.

I mean, the guy is not a very talented driver, he makes many mistakes, manage to lose 2018, now is beaten by his teamate and do not respect anymore any order by the team

On top of that, he cost a huge amount of money for the team
I think it was discussed above that there was a live broadcast of the team radio. Vettel's engineer asked him to stop immediately, on track.

321apex
321apex
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Re: 2019 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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Jambier wrote:
30 Sep 2019, 09:30
Do you think they can keep Vettel ?

- He doesn't respect the start agreement.
- MGU K fails, they asked him to go to pits.. instead is creating a SC making LEC lose.

I mean, the guy is not a very talented driver, he makes many mistakes, manage to lose 2018, now is beaten by his teamate and do not respect anymore any order by the team

On top of that, he cost a huge amount of money for the team
Agree. He surely knew his stopping on the track would result in safety car and compromising the advantage his teammate's has had.

belldanndy
belldanndy
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Joined: 20 Jul 2012, 10:48

Re: 2019 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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321apex wrote:
30 Sep 2019, 09:59
Jambier wrote:
30 Sep 2019, 09:30
Do you think they can keep Vettel ?

- He doesn't respect the start agreement.
- MGU K fails, they asked him to go to pits.. instead is creating a SC making LEC lose.

I mean, the guy is not a very talented driver, he makes many mistakes, manage to lose 2018, now is beaten by his teamate and do not respect anymore any order by the team

On top of that, he cost a huge amount of money for the team
Agree. He surely knew his stopping on the track would result in safety car and compromising the advantage his teammate's has had.
No, the team ask him to stop immediately to save the ICE, that's bring out VSC only, SC was cause by Russell.

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MtthsMlw
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Location: Germany

Re: 2019 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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321apex wrote:
30 Sep 2019, 09:59
Jambier wrote:
30 Sep 2019, 09:30
Do you think they can keep Vettel ?

- He doesn't respect the start agreement.
- MGU K fails, they asked him to go to pits.. instead is creating a SC making LEC lose.

I mean, the guy is not a very talented driver, he makes many mistakes, manage to lose 2018, now is beaten by his teamate and do not respect anymore any order by the team

On top of that, he cost a huge amount of money for the team
Agree. He surely knew his stopping on the track would result in safety car and compromising the advantage his teammate's has had.
His car was electrically unsafe, no need to risk anything so you stop immediately. He parked in a way his car could be easily pushed back but as it was unsafe Marshalls couldn't touch it (VSC needed as it would take longer) - see the red light blinking under the t-cam and near the HALO.

ferkan
ferkan
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Re: 2019 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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selvam_e2002 wrote:
30 Sep 2019, 08:17
why it is burning in Soci? Lecrec did same thing to Vettel in Bharin now its time for Vettel to give back. I don't see any issue with it.

As LM10 said above, it is Ferrari team principle Mr. Binotto should take strong decision but he is not doing that. Seems he is not good team manager. It is causing problem within the drivers.

I don't see they learned the lesson. Life is a circle, the same situation can happen to Lecrec down the line with another young driver.

Interesting to watch 2020 Ferrari if Vettel stays back.
How is Bahrain comparible to Sochi at all? He outqualified Vettel and overtook him on the track.

In Sochi Vettel agreed to something he had not intention of following through. Thats what happened.

He should have never agreed to it and then Leclerc should have gone for inside line or try to break tow and then close the corner when Vettel tries to go round the outside.

Vettel wanted his cake, and eat it to. If I start badly, give me a tow. If I start good, give me a tow and T1 and I'll show everyone I am faster guy even if the give you place back through pits.

dominaze
dominaze
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Joined: 28 Feb 2012, 15:45

Re: 2019 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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Leclerc should calm down a bit. I mean, pre-race agreement or not, such things should not be publicly disclosed. That's the team sheer intimacy, you don't have to be vocal about it on the radio. Ferrari is still recovering from years of internal issues, it doesn't need to deal with fans and media right now.

XRayF1
XRayF1
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Re: 2019 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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ferkan wrote:
30 Sep 2019, 12:58
selvam_e2002 wrote:
30 Sep 2019, 08:17
why it is burning in Soci? Lecrec did same thing to Vettel in Bharin now its time for Vettel to give back. I don't see any issue with it.

As LM10 said above, it is Ferrari team principle Mr. Binotto should take strong decision but he is not doing that. Seems he is not good team manager. It is causing problem within the drivers.

I don't see they learned the lesson. Life is a circle, the same situation can happen to Lecrec down the line with another young driver.

Interesting to watch 2020 Ferrari if Vettel stays back.
How is Bahrain comparible to Sochi at all? He outqualified Vettel and overtook him on the track.

In Sochi Vettel agreed to something he had not intention of following through. Thats what happened.

He should have never agreed to it and then Leclerc should have gone for inside line or try to break tow and then close the corner when Vettel tries to go round the outside.

Vettel wanted his cake, and eat it to. If I start badly, give me a tow. If I start good, give me a tow and T1 and I'll show everyone I am faster guy even if the give you place back through pits.
You may argue it both ways.
And there is always the chicken and egg problem - which was first.

As far as I remember, LEC was also not behaving correctly in Monza re giving slipstream to VET.
Perhaps this whole thing is currently only now boiling over, and started already far earlier than we can actually see?