General Honda F1 Topic

Post here all non technical related topics about Formula One. This includes race results, discussions, testing analysis etc. TV coverage and other personal questions should be in Off topic chat.
ispano6
106
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2017 10:56 pm
Location: my armchair

Re: General Honda F1 Topic

Post by ispano6 » Mon Oct 07, 2019 4:54 am

According to this article Max expects 0.2sec performance from the new fuel.

https://f1-gate.com/verstappen/f1_52493.html
October 7, 2019
Max Verstappen "New fuel introduced at F1 Japan GP is 0.2 second gain"
Red Bull Honda's Max Verstappen believes that the new fuel introduced by the fuel supplier ExxonMobil at the F1 Japan GP will draw an additional 0.2 seconds from the Honda F1 engine.

F1 fuel is changed and adjusted several times a year, but Red Bull Racing has used the same type throughout the season so far.

Dario Iso, ExxonMobil's technical adviser, explains why, “It usually changes more often, but this year there was no possibility or necessity,” commented Dario Iso.

“Honda is working in a very structured way, so there was no need to make any major changes,”

but ExxonMobil prepared new fuel for the F1 Japan GP. The use of different fuels in Honda's Spec 4 F1 engine is expected to significantly improve performance.

“Over the years, gasoline updates have delivered the most gain to all engine suppliers. We expect gains from new fuel. If we can earn 0.1-0.2 seconds, it's quite big.” Said Max Verstappen.

Red Bull Racing is hoping to finish the new fuel boost and close the gap between Ferrari and Mercedes.

Wouter
165
Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2017 12:02 pm

Re: General Honda F1 Topic

Post by Wouter » Mon Oct 07, 2019 7:56 am

ispano6 wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 4:54 am
According to this article Max expects 0.2sec performance from the new fuel.

https://f1-gate.com/verstappen/f1_52493.html
October 7, 2019
Max Verstappen "New fuel introduced at F1 Japan GP is 0.2 second gain"
Red Bull Honda's Max Verstappen believes that the new fuel introduced by the fuel supplier ExxonMobil at the F1 Japan GP will draw an additional 0.2 seconds from the Honda F1 engine.

“Over the years, gasoline updates have delivered the most gain to all engine suppliers.
We expect gains from new fuel.
If we can earn 0.1-0.2 seconds, it's quite big.” Said Max Verstappen.

Red Bull Racing is hoping to finish the new fuel boost and close the gap between Ferrari and Mercedes.
From the originale interview at Exact in Utrecht last week:

If all goes well, the team will also be provided with a new fuel specification, is that correct?

"Yes. Over the years, the updates in gasoline have delivered the most for every engine supplier.
We expect something from it.
IF we can win one or two tenths, IF, that's quite a lot. But we have to wait and see if that will really be the case.
I also don't think the rest will come with many updates in that area. "
The Japanese article says they win 0.2 seconds, but a little later Max says something else.
Their first statement is incorrect.
Max would like that big gain a lot, but first he has to see it on the circuit. He's skeptical.
Max doesn't expects 0.2sec performance from the new fuel at all.

"Red Bull Racing is hoping to finish the new fuel boost and close the gap between Ferrari and Mercedes."

RBR and Max never said that.

_cerber1
80
User avatar
Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2019 8:50 pm

Re: General Honda F1 Topic

Post by _cerber1 » Mon Oct 07, 2019 8:24 am

Fuel will never give an increase of 0.1-0.2 seconds. 4 engine specification + fuel in total can this provide.

GhostF1
139
Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2016 3:11 am

Re: General Honda F1 Topic

Post by GhostF1 » Mon Oct 07, 2019 10:22 am

_cerber1 wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 8:24 am
Fuel will never give an increase of 0.1-0.2 seconds. 4 engine specification + fuel in total can this provide.
I'm pretty sure that's what everyone understands.. the fuel itself may bring a small gain but the big part is it allows calibration of PU to find the gain. But yes, I'm pretty certain everyone gets that.

KelsO
16
Joined: Thu Mar 07, 2019 9:58 pm

Re: General Honda F1 Topic

Post by KelsO » Mon Oct 07, 2019 10:26 am

_cerber1 wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 8:24 am
Fuel will never give an increase of 0.1-0.2 seconds. 4 engine specification + fuel in total can this provide.
One fuel may not. But new fuel can allow using the potential of an engine that was previously unavailable, say due to detonation, combustion stability.

Capharol
41
User avatar
Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2018 4:06 pm

Re: General Honda F1 Topic

Post by Capharol » Mon Oct 07, 2019 4:01 pm

Honda managing director, Masashi Yamamoto, has said the Japanese engine manufacturers currently have no plans to return as a factory team.

With Formula 1 hitting the reset button in 2021, there could have been an opportunity to shake up of teams that structure the World Championship.
“We know that continuity in Formula 1 is very important.
“So we have done five years for power unit and somehow now reaching a good area.
“However if we start the chassis now we are going to have another struggle again which we don’t want.”

Instead, Yamamoto revealed what Honda’s main motivation is as we head towards the 2021 season.
“There’s not much advantage for being a supplier in this world,” he added.
“However as you can you know from our name Honda Motor, we have started with engine.
“So we think we are the specialists about engine so we want to be the top in the highest technology of engine world for us. That’s what we are trying.”
https://www.planetf1.com/news/honda-hav ... tory-team/
original article:
https://www.racefans.net/2019/10/07/hon ... udget-cap/
Strive for continuous improvement, instead of perfection.
"Most people seem to turn off their brain when they turn on the computer and log in to social media."

ispano6
106
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2017 10:56 pm
Location: my armchair

Re: General Honda F1 Topic

Post by ispano6 » Mon Oct 07, 2019 5:39 pm

Wouter wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 7:56 am
ispano6 wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 4:54 am
According to this article Max expects 0.2sec performance from the new fuel.

https://f1-gate.com/verstappen/f1_52493.html
October 7, 2019
Max Verstappen "New fuel introduced at F1 Japan GP is 0.2 second gain"
Red Bull Honda's Max Verstappen believes that the new fuel introduced by the fuel supplier ExxonMobil at the F1 Japan GP will draw an additional 0.2 seconds from the Honda F1 engine.

“Over the years, gasoline updates have delivered the most gain to all engine suppliers.
We expect gains from new fuel.
If we can earn 0.1-0.2 seconds, it's quite big.” Said Max Verstappen.

Red Bull Racing is hoping to finish the new fuel boost and close the gap between Ferrari and Mercedes.
From the originale interview at Exact in Utrecht last week:

If all goes well, the team will also be provided with a new fuel specification, is that correct?

"Yes. Over the years, the updates in gasoline have delivered the most for every engine supplier.
We expect something from it.
IF we can win one or two tenths, IF, that's quite a lot. But we have to wait and see if that will really be the case.
I also don't think the rest will come with many updates in that area. "
The Japanese article says they win 0.2 seconds, but a little later Max says something else.
Their first statement is incorrect.
Max would like that big gain a lot, but first he has to see it on the circuit. He's skeptical.
Max doesn't expects 0.2sec performance from the new fuel at all.

"Red Bull Racing is hoping to finish the new fuel boost and close the gap between Ferrari and Mercedes."

RBR and Max never said that.
Yes, which is why I said According to this article Max expects 0.2sec performance from the new fuel..
Now, it wouldn't be much of a headline if a fuel brought 0.1sec of performance. All indicators are this is a boost in performance, which was actually supposed to happen earlier in the year.

If the expected performance of 0.2sec is not met, then we have a bigger problem than this article lost in translation.

Wouter
165
Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2017 12:02 pm

Re: General Honda F1 Topic

Post by Wouter » Mon Oct 07, 2019 6:23 pm

Thanks for the downvote, with the reason "really?" , when I report here that the writer of the Japanese article
places a wrong profit number, which I explain through the original interview. That is not allowed here?
It is absurd that I received a downvote for that.

@Ispano6, thanks for placing the article.
Now I know that even in Japan they place exaggerated headlines to attract readers. :wink:

ispano6
106
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2017 10:56 pm
Location: my armchair

Re: General Honda F1 Topic

Post by ispano6 » Mon Oct 07, 2019 6:37 pm

Wouter wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 6:23 pm
Thanks for the downvote, with the reason "really?" , when I report here that the writer of the Japanese article
places a wrong profit number, which I explain through the original interview. That is not allowed here?
It is absurd that I received a downvote for that.

@Ispano6, thanks for placing the article.
Now I know that even in Japan they place exaggerated headlines to attract readers. :wink:
Actually, no, Max Verstappen and Red Bull racing ARE saying that they are expecting a "gain". And not a small one, a big one. The article DID have what Max mentions is what a big gain WOULD be, which is 0.1-0.2. ExxonMobil already stated they decided to forego a small gain for a big gain later on for Suzuka.

Wasn't your reply to my post that "Max and RB never said that" unnecessary?

ispano6
106
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2017 10:56 pm
Location: my armchair

Re: General Honda F1 Topic

Post by ispano6 » Mon Oct 07, 2019 7:08 pm


Wouter
165
Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2017 12:02 pm

Re: General Honda F1 Topic

Post by Wouter » Mon Oct 07, 2019 7:34 pm

ispano6 wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 6:37 pm
Wouter wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 6:23 pm
Thanks for the downvote, with the reason "really?" , when I report here that the writer of the Japanese article
places a wrong profit number, which I explain through the original interview. That is not allowed here?
It is absurd that I received a downvote for that.

@Ispano6, thanks for placing the article.
Now I know that even in Japan they place exaggerated headlines to attract readers. :wink:
Actually, no, Max Verstappen and Red Bull racing ARE saying that they are expecting a "gain". And not a small one, a big one. The article DID have what Max mentions is what a big gain WOULD be, which is 0.1-0.2. ExxonMobil already stated they decided to forego a small gain for a big gain later on for Suzuka.

Wasn't your reply to my post that "Max and RB never said that" unnecessary?

Max: "If we can win one or two tenths, that's quite a lot.
But we have to wait and see if that will really be the case."

So you read that as: "We expect a big gain."

If you find it that way, I'll be fine.

By the way, you were also sure that Honda got a new fuel in Bahrain.
You must have read that this new fuel in Japan is the first new this year.

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=27821&p=824174#p824174

godlameroso
337
User avatar
Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2010 8:27 pm
Location: Miami FL

Re: General Honda F1 Topic

Post by godlameroso » Tue Oct 08, 2019 12:22 am

Remember that when talking of gains they're talking of gains relative to the others. Mercedes and Ferrari's power units are moving targets, so a .2 second gain would be relative to them. The real gain can be .3 to .4, considering RBR is also bringing a chassis update. A .2 second boost would create parity between themselves and Ferrari or Mercedes, with that it would be enough to win the rest of the races, because Verstappen is just that good.
The height of cultivation is really nothing special. It is merely simplicity; the ability to express the utmost with the minimum. Mr.Lee

ispano6
106
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2017 10:56 pm
Location: my armchair

Re: General Honda F1 Topic

Post by ispano6 » Tue Oct 08, 2019 1:42 am

Wouter wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 7:34 pm
ispano6 wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 6:37 pm
Wouter wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 6:23 pm
Thanks for the downvote, with the reason "really?" , when I report here that the writer of the Japanese article
places a wrong profit number, which I explain through the original interview. That is not allowed here?
It is absurd that I received a downvote for that.

@Ispano6, thanks for placing the article.
Now I know that even in Japan they place exaggerated headlines to attract readers. :wink:
Actually, no, Max Verstappen and Red Bull racing ARE saying that they are expecting a "gain". And not a small one, a big one. The article DID have what Max mentions is what a big gain WOULD be, which is 0.1-0.2. ExxonMobil already stated they decided to forego a small gain for a big gain later on for Suzuka.

Wasn't your reply to my post that "Max and RB never said that" unnecessary?

Max: "If we can win one or two tenths, that's quite a lot.
But we have to wait and see if that will really be the case."

So you read that as: "We expect a big gain."

If you find it that way, I'll be fine.

By the way, you were also sure that Honda got a new fuel in Bahrain.
You must have read that this new fuel in Japan is the first new this year.

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=27821&p=824174#p824174
Actually, they had gotten it in the race before in Australia, well, at least one of the 40 fuel variations they had available. I had presumed that it would be introduced in Bahrain because ExxonMobil published their article about their fuel upgrade on March 14 prior to the Bahrain Grand Prix.

https://energyfactor.exxonmobil.com/beh ... obile-lab/
“The EMRE team is always working on changes to the formulation to try to get a little extra power out of the engine,” says Dario. Indeed, with ExxonMobil’s latest fuel formulation for the Red Bull Racing Team, Dario estimates that the team is gaining 0.10 to 0.15 seconds per lap (depending on the track) compared to the previous formulations – a considerable difference in the world of racing. But these gains originate from tedious testing in the days leading up to the race.
I took "latest" as the fuel they were going to bring to Bahrain, when in fact it was the one they had already brought to Australia. But it wasn't revealed that the fuel was brought to Australia until a separate interview published on Mar 25.

etusch
90
User avatar
Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2009 10:09 pm
Location: Turkey

Re: General Honda F1 Topic

Post by etusch » Tue Oct 08, 2019 10:33 am


Hino
98
Joined: Wed May 03, 2017 2:22 am
Location: Los Angeles

Re: General Honda F1 Topic

Post by Hino » Tue Oct 08, 2019 8:06 pm

2019 F1 Fan Meetup live stream with Max, Pierre, and Danil.