2019 Williams F1 Team - Mercedes

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madly
7
Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2010 10:20 pm

Re: 2019 Williams F1 Team - Mercedes

Post by madly » Thu Oct 17, 2019 4:02 pm

"People still seem to miss the point." and that was something else. Kubica suggested, that it was decided (after FP2), he will use experimental FW in a race and suddenly when Q3 arrived, he was surprised with change.

ENGINE TUNER
8
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2016 5:07 pm

Re: 2019 Williams F1 Team - Mercedes

Post by ENGINE TUNER » Thu Oct 17, 2019 4:25 pm

madly wrote:
Thu Oct 17, 2019 4:02 pm
"People still seem to miss the point." and that was something else. Kubica suggested, that it was decided (after FP2), he will use experimental FW in a race and suddenly when Q3 arrived, he was surprised with change.
Good move by Williams or that experimental front wing would have been in the wall along with crash happy Bob. KUB is done, next young gun please.

ENGINE TUNER
8
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2016 5:07 pm

Re: 2019 Williams F1 Team - Mercedes

Post by ENGINE TUNER » Thu Oct 17, 2019 4:38 pm

Lotus102 wrote:
Tue Oct 15, 2019 11:37 am
netoperek wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 10:11 pm
ENGINE TUNER wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 7:11 pm

Kubica crashed in pre season testing and then 3 more times in Australia. The ink was dry after that. He is no longer fit for F1. Good try, time for the next young gun.
What?? In Australia, first Lando Norris has been released in front of Kubica (and got penalty for it) in practice, then he brushed the wall, puncturing the tire (his mistake), then in the race on first lap Gasly hit Robert, taking out the wing, puncturing the tire and damaging rear part of the floor IIRC. Kubica managed to finish the race. He also brought car home in every other race so far, though once prematurely. How is that not fit for F1? How many other drivers do we have with clean slate on the grid? He had few minor mistakes, few spins. Sure. Despite that he's been in the very top driver reliability wise this season. Provide any proof or statistics suggesting otherwise or stop being manipulative.
In Australia Kubica launched it down the inside and understeered into Gasly, it was 100% his fault. Worth remembering that in France he ran Russell off the track leading to damage to Russell’s front wing. In Russia he crowded Russell into Ricciardo (when he had plenty of room on the outside), again leading to damage to Russell’s car. In Monaco he ran wide, inviting a rather silly move from Giovinazzi, and then shut the door. Maybe 40% his fault. He’s kept it clean mainly by dint of being so far off the back he had no other cars around him, but in traffic it’s not always thus. I admit I worried this year that he was going to be a danger to the drivers around him, but it hasn’t turned out as I feared.
Both you and netoperek seem to have forgotten when he crashed into the pit lane wall in Australia, and when he crashed in pre season testing, all while complaining about a lack of parts. Crashes matter, whether they are in testing, practice, qually or the race, especially for a poor team like Williams who were already behind in making parts.

Manoah2u
383
Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2013 1:07 pm

Re: 2019 Williams F1 Team - Mercedes

Post by Manoah2u » Thu Oct 17, 2019 6:45 pm

ENGINE TUNER wrote:
Thu Oct 17, 2019 4:25 pm
madly wrote:
Thu Oct 17, 2019 4:02 pm
"People still seem to miss the point." and that was something else. Kubica suggested, that it was decided (after FP2), he will use experimental FW in a race and suddenly when Q3 arrived, he was surprised with change.
Good move by Williams or that experimental front wing would have been in the wall along with crash happy Bob. KUB is done, next young gun please.
#-o if williams had kept the same wing on, he wouldn't have been in the wall due to a car being set up with a different wing, and as such, a downforce difference. i see you're too lazy to even read that that has been covered well enough in this thread.

matter of fact.

one more for the ignore list.
Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools.

ENGINE TUNER
8
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2016 5:07 pm

Re: 2019 Williams F1 Team - Mercedes

Post by ENGINE TUNER » Thu Oct 17, 2019 8:02 pm

Manoah2u wrote:
Thu Oct 17, 2019 6:45 pm
ENGINE TUNER wrote:
Thu Oct 17, 2019 4:25 pm
madly wrote:
Thu Oct 17, 2019 4:02 pm
"People still seem to miss the point." and that was something else. Kubica suggested, that it was decided (after FP2), he will use experimental FW in a race and suddenly when Q3 arrived, he was surprised with change.
Good move by Williams or that experimental front wing would have been in the wall along with crash happy Bob. KUB is done, next young gun please.
#-o if williams had kept the same wing on, he wouldn't have been in the wall due to a car being set up with a different wing, and as such, a downforce difference. i see you're too lazy to even read that that has been covered well enough in this thread.

matter of fact.

one more for the ignore list.
So he's been crashing all year because they took off the experimental front wing in japan, yeah sure.

Lotus102
12
Joined: Mon Feb 26, 2018 9:29 pm

Re: 2019 Williams F1 Team - Mercedes

Post by Lotus102 » Fri Oct 18, 2019 7:29 am

Manoah2u wrote:
Thu Oct 17, 2019 6:45 pm
ENGINE TUNER wrote:
Thu Oct 17, 2019 4:25 pm
madly wrote:
Thu Oct 17, 2019 4:02 pm
"People still seem to miss the point." and that was something else. Kubica suggested, that it was decided (after FP2), he will use experimental FW in a race and suddenly when Q3 arrived, he was surprised with change.
Good move by Williams or that experimental front wing would have been in the wall along with crash happy Bob. KUB is done, next young gun please.
#-o if williams had kept the same wing on, he wouldn't have been in the wall due to a car being set up with a different wing, and as such, a downforce difference. i see you're too lazy to even read that that has been covered well enough in this thread.

matter of fact.

one more for the ignore list.
Even Kubica didn’t claim this as the reason for his crash. He said it was a misjudgement and possibly a bit because of a different spec of power steering. He had driven with the original wing for half of FP1 so it’s not as though he had no experience with it. In any case, it was the out lap for his first flying lap, he should have been more careful. Just because some of his fans would like it to be the reason he wrecked his car doesn’t make it true.

Frankly I think the effort RWR put into fixing his car so he could race should blow any arguments of unfair treatment out of the water. It would have been very easy for them to say they couldn’t fix it on time - it was touch and go anyway - and make Kubica sit the race out.

Lotus102
12
Joined: Mon Feb 26, 2018 9:29 pm

Re: 2019 Williams F1 Team - Mercedes

Post by Lotus102 » Fri Oct 18, 2019 7:32 am

madly wrote:
Thu Oct 17, 2019 4:02 pm
"People still seem to miss the point." and that was something else. Kubica suggested, that it was decided (after FP2), he will use experimental FW in a race and suddenly when Q3 arrived, he was surprised with change.
RWR denies that it was ever decided to use the wing in the race and as I and others set out above, this is consistent with everything they said before and after the race. Even Kubica, after FP2, admitted that the wing was not for racing, and only changed his story after quali.

munudeges
9
Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2011 4:08 pm

Re: 2019 Williams F1 Team - Mercedes

Post by munudeges » Tue Oct 22, 2019 3:38 pm

Manoah2u wrote:
Mon Jul 15, 2019 5:14 pm
munudeges wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2019 4:01 pm
I'm afraid not. It's painfully obvious that Kubica was and is having trouble getting that car turned properly into corners. He was rejected by Renault for a reason and that was before Sainz was signed. All things being equal he's a better driver than Sainz.
#-o #-o #-o #-o #-o
Well this didn't age well.......... :lol:

netoperek
44
Joined: Tue Sep 21, 2010 10:06 pm

Re: 2019 Williams F1 Team - Mercedes

Post by netoperek » Tue Oct 22, 2019 4:26 pm

ENGINE TUNER wrote:
Thu Oct 17, 2019 8:02 pm
Manoah2u wrote:
Thu Oct 17, 2019 6:45 pm
ENGINE TUNER wrote:
Thu Oct 17, 2019 4:25 pm

Good move by Williams or that experimental front wing would have been in the wall along with crash happy Bob. KUB is done, next young gun please.
#-o if williams had kept the same wing on, he wouldn't have been in the wall due to a car being set up with a different wing, and as such, a downforce difference. i see you're too lazy to even read that that has been covered well enough in this thread.

matter of fact.

one more for the ignore list.
So he's been crashing all year because they took off the experimental front wing in japan, yeah sure.
Russel's got more damage to his name than Kubica.
latest crash has been due to power steering and wing changes without letting Kubica know. He literally got a car with changed steering characteristics for the fastest session. Good luck finding a driver who wouldn't get any sort of problems with such surprise. If You're driving competitevly, please tell Your teammates to make such changes in random moment without letting You know, just before You'll go flat out with over 700 hp under Your foot and let us know what the outcome was.

netoperek
44
Joined: Tue Sep 21, 2010 10:06 pm

Re: 2019 Williams F1 Team - Mercedes

Post by netoperek » Tue Oct 22, 2019 4:35 pm

Lotus102 wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 7:29 am
Manoah2u wrote:
Thu Oct 17, 2019 6:45 pm
ENGINE TUNER wrote:
Thu Oct 17, 2019 4:25 pm

Good move by Williams or that experimental front wing would have been in the wall along with crash happy Bob. KUB is done, next young gun please.
#-o if williams had kept the same wing on, he wouldn't have been in the wall due to a car being set up with a different wing, and as such, a downforce difference. i see you're too lazy to even read that that has been covered well enough in this thread.

matter of fact.

one more for the ignore list.
Even Kubica didn’t claim this as the reason for his crash. He said it was a misjudgement and possibly a bit because of a different spec of power steering. He had driven with the original wing for half of FP1 so it’s not as though he had no experience with it. In any case, it was the out lap for his first flying lap, he should have been more careful. Just because some of his fans would like it to be the reason he wrecked his car doesn’t make it true.

Frankly I think the effort RWR put into fixing his car so he could race should blow any arguments of unfair treatment out of the water. It would have been very easy for them to say they couldn’t fix it on time - it was touch and go anyway - and make Kubica sit the race out.
You're right, he said it was more due to power steering changes "I suddenly ran out of asphalt where I'd normally fit" was his initial comment on that. But granted he even admitted he should do better than that and added that "At this point one should really expect anything". Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought Robert has been fitted with Barcelona pre season spec wing for qually, which haven't been used in FPs.
He praised the mechanics and rightly so, as they trully did amazing job, especially with resources Williams have. Actually, I've never heard anything negative from Kubica towards anyone beside Claire and to some extent to Paul during race. Robert pointed out trouble maker quite precisely (Claire has been absent last race)

Lotus102
12
Joined: Mon Feb 26, 2018 9:29 pm

Re: 2019 Williams F1 Team - Mercedes

Post by Lotus102 » Tue Oct 22, 2019 5:29 pm

netoperek wrote:
Tue Oct 22, 2019 4:35 pm
You're right, he said it was more due to power steering changes "I suddenly ran out of asphalt where I'd normally fit" was his initial comment on that. But granted he even admitted he should do better than that and added that "At this point one should really expect anything". Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought Robert has been fitted with Barcelona pre season spec wing for qually, which haven't been used in FPs.
He praised the mechanics and rightly so, as they trully did amazing job, especially with resources Williams have. Actually, I've never heard anything negative from Kubica towards anyone beside Claire and to some extent to Paul during race. Robert pointed out trouble maker quite precisely (Claire has been absent last race)
Indeed, he generally couches his criticisms in quite equivocal terms, hinting at the target of his complaint rather than stating them outright. This time he made it a bit clearer and predictably unleashed another wave of misogynistic abuse from his more rabid fans. Does anyone really believe Claire involves herself directly in the minutiae of operational decisionmaking? Perhaps if there was a dispute between a driver and the technical team, Claire might be asked to arbitrate and make the final call, but I find the suggestion that she stepped in to overrule a (nonsensical) operational decision to be somewhat unlikely.

Lotus102
12
Joined: Mon Feb 26, 2018 9:29 pm

Re: 2019 Williams F1 Team - Mercedes

Post by Lotus102 » Tue Oct 22, 2019 5:37 pm

netoperek wrote:
Tue Oct 22, 2019 4:26 pm

Russel's got more damage to his name than Kubica.
latest crash has been due to power steering and wing changes without letting Kubica know. He literally got a car with changed steering characteristics for the fastest session. Good luck finding a driver who wouldn't get any sort of problems with such surprise. If You're driving competitevly, please tell Your teammates to make such changes in random moment without letting You know, just before You'll go flat out with over 700 hp under Your foot and let us know what the outcome was.
Russell only has more damage to his name if you include incidents that were not remotely or not chiefly his fault - the drain cover in Baku, the improperly fixed wheel in Sochi, Grosjean tipping him into the wall in Singapore, and the two front wings Kubica caused him to break. I struggle to think of any serious damage to the car caused by a mistake by Russell rather than external factors. Kubica’s damage, on the other hand, has almost all been down to driving errors.

Cars change characteristics between sessions. Only a very foolish driver would hang it out round the outside of a fast turn in very gusty conditions on an out lap without leaving a small margin.

ENGINE TUNER
8
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2016 5:07 pm

Re: 2019 Williams F1 Team - Mercedes

Post by ENGINE TUNER » Tue Oct 22, 2019 6:46 pm

Lotus102 wrote:
Tue Oct 22, 2019 5:37 pm
netoperek wrote:
Tue Oct 22, 2019 4:26 pm

Russel's got more damage to his name than Kubica.
latest crash has been due to power steering and wing changes without letting Kubica know. He literally got a car with changed steering characteristics for the fastest session. Good luck finding a driver who wouldn't get any sort of problems with such surprise. If You're driving competitevly, please tell Your teammates to make such changes in random moment without letting You know, just before You'll go flat out with over 700 hp under Your foot and let us know what the outcome was.
Russell only has more damage to his name if you include incidents that were not remotely or not chiefly his fault - the drain cover in Baku, the improperly fixed wheel in Sochi, Grosjean tipping him into the wall in Singapore, and the two front wings Kubica caused him to break. I struggle to think of any serious damage to the car caused by a mistake by Russell rather than external factors. Kubica’s damage, on the other hand, has almost all been down to driving errors.

Cars change characteristics between sessions. Only a very foolish driver would hang it out round the outside of a fast turn in very gusty conditions on an out lap without leaving a small margin.
Exactly

marmer
34
Joined: Fri Apr 21, 2017 5:48 am

Re: 2019 Williams F1 Team - Mercedes

Post by marmer » Wed Oct 23, 2019 10:56 am

Lotus102 wrote:
Tue Oct 22, 2019 5:37 pm
netoperek wrote:
Tue Oct 22, 2019 4:26 pm

Russel's got more damage to his name than Kubica.
latest crash has been due to power steering and wing changes without letting Kubica know. He literally got a car with changed steering characteristics for the fastest session. Good luck finding a driver who wouldn't get any sort of problems with such surprise. If You're driving competitevly, please tell Your teammates to make such changes in random moment without letting You know, just before You'll go flat out with over 700 hp under Your foot and let us know what the outcome was.
Russell only has more damage to his name if you include incidents that were not remotely or not chiefly his fault - the drain cover in Baku, the improperly fixed wheel in Sochi, Grosjean tipping him into the wall in Singapore, and the two front wings Kubica caused him to break. I struggle to think of any serious damage to the car caused by a mistake by Russell rather than external factors. Kubica’s damage, on the other hand, has almost all been down to driving errors.

Cars change characteristics between sessions. Only a very foolish driver would hang it out round the outside of a fast turn in very gusty conditions on an out lap without leaving a small margin.
Luca badoer went full beans first try in spa so maybe they can if someone that rubbish could nail it

Lotus102
12
Joined: Mon Feb 26, 2018 9:29 pm

Re: 2019 Williams F1 Team - Mercedes

Post by Lotus102 » Wed Oct 23, 2019 12:37 pm

marmer wrote:
Wed Oct 23, 2019 10:56 am

Luca badoer went full beans first try in spa so maybe they can if someone that rubbish could nail it
Badoer was pretty good in his day, but he’d been out of competitive F1 for far too long. Remind you of anyone?