2019 Japanese Grand Prix - Suzuka, Oct 11 - 13

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TAG
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Re: 2019 Japanese Grand Prix - Suzuka, Oct 11 - 13

Post by TAG » Thu Oct 17, 2019 1:30 am

iotar__ wrote:
Wed Oct 16, 2019 11:46 pm
That's a roundabout way of saying that Bottas had a great start =P~ . I bet Hamilton and Leclerc didn't have one for fear of being "close to jumping it".
Some driver can only win with a great start. :D Vettel was trying really hard and Bottas has a history of good starts.
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Re: 2019 Japanese Grand Prix - Suzuka, Oct 11 - 13

Post by strad » Thu Oct 17, 2019 1:52 am

you can have a look at this post if you want, then you'll know what i mean:
viewtopic.php?p=867948#p867948
No You Can't 'cause the FIA blocked it.
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strad
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Re: 2019 Japanese Grand Prix - Suzuka, Oct 11 - 13

Post by strad » Thu Oct 17, 2019 1:54 am

in this one it doesn't look like he ever completely stopped. https://i.imgur.com/cpwg3be.gif
And any F1 car that rocks when stopped hard is in need of a lot of suspension work.
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Re: 2019 Japanese Grand Prix - Suzuka, Oct 11 - 13

Post by Sierra117 » Thu Oct 17, 2019 1:58 am

strad wrote:
Thu Oct 17, 2019 1:52 am
you can have a look at this post if you want, then you'll know what i mean:
viewtopic.php?p=867948#p867948
No You Can't 'cause the FIA blocked it.
It's blocked to be viewed in embedded mode so just open it on YouTube (they want them views)
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Re: 2019 Japanese Grand Prix - Suzuka, Oct 11 - 13

Post by Bsowles » Thu Oct 17, 2019 3:38 am

Wass85 wrote:
Wed Oct 16, 2019 6:02 am
Bsowles wrote:
Wed Oct 16, 2019 4:56 am
deltaecho5 wrote:
Tue Oct 15, 2019 11:15 pm



As no man is On an Island, and his voice Echoes across the Endless River, I must have been Comfortably Numb in the company of Animals on the Dark Side of the Moon to have made such a reference...
Well done, sir! (and without another brick in the wall). Onto Mexico we go!
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Re: 2019 Japanese Grand Prix - Suzuka, Oct 11 - 13

Post by Phil » Thu Oct 17, 2019 6:22 am

Vettel didnt lose more positions because Leclerc was set off by Vettels movement and also because the drivers starting on the even side of the grid had much less rubber as a result of the very clean track from all the rain.

Not to mention that Bottas had an early start himself, entirely focusing on Vettel while pretty much everyone else was reacting to the lights?
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Re: 2019 Japanese Grand Prix - Suzuka, Oct 11 - 13

Post by NathanOlder » Thu Oct 17, 2019 7:25 am

Phil wrote:
Thu Oct 17, 2019 6:22 am
Vettel didnt lose more positions because Leclerc was set off by Vettels movement and also because the drivers starting on the even side of the grid had much less rubber as a result of the very clean track from all the rain.

Not to mention that Bottas had an early start himself, entirely focusing on Vettel while pretty much everyone else was reacting to the lights?
Bottas would have been focused on the lights 100%. Its just Vettel was a large part of his peripheral vision so when he saw Vettel go, Bottas reacted and went. Luckily for him Vettel jumped the start less than a second of when the lights actually went out.
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Re: 2019 Japanese Grand Prix - Suzuka, Oct 11 - 13

Post by iotar__ » Thu Oct 17, 2019 11:32 am

NathanOlder wrote:
Thu Oct 17, 2019 7:25 am
Bottas would have been focused on the lights 100%. Its just Vettel was a large part of his peripheral vision so when he saw Vettel go, Bottas reacted and went. Luckily for him Vettel jumped the start less than a second of when the lights actually went out.
- :? That's not how starts work.
- I'm guessing Hamilton didn't see Vettel, "Luckily for him" = lucky Bottas.
- Amusing or not this beyond the absurd point of driver support #-o .

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Re: 2019 Japanese Grand Prix - Suzuka, Oct 11 - 13

Post by RZS10 » Thu Oct 17, 2019 12:15 pm

strad wrote:
Thu Oct 17, 2019 1:54 am
No You Can't 'cause the FIA blocked it.
[...]
in this one it doesn't look like he ever completely stopped. https://i.imgur.com/cpwg3be.gif
I forgot that it's pointless to embed official F1 videos.

You sure about the "not stopped"?
Image

source: viewtopic.php?p=867581#p867581
There's a few frames in which he's stationary.

I don't even know what iotar is on about :wtf: - this has nothing to do with support for any of the drivers but with making as objective and factual observations as possible based on the material that is available.
The onboard from Bottas shows that he began his 'start' before the lights turned off and got going within a timeframe that is significantly lower than the usual reaction time - what more would you need to come to the conclusion that it was an anticipated start most likely caused by him reacting to Vettel?

Oh and there's this: https://youtu.be/N-xlRCOWxbw?t=269

Andrew Shovlin: "And when you look at it, i think what happened was when Sebastian ahead of him went Valtteri had seen that [...] and i think that helped him"

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Re: 2019 Japanese Grand Prix - Suzuka, Oct 11 - 13

Post by NathanOlder » Thu Oct 17, 2019 1:05 pm

iotar__ wrote:
Thu Oct 17, 2019 11:32 am
NathanOlder wrote:
Thu Oct 17, 2019 7:25 am
Bottas would have been focused on the lights 100%. Its just Vettel was a large part of his peripheral vision so when he saw Vettel go, Bottas reacted and went. Luckily for him Vettel jumped the start less than a second of when the lights actually went out.
- :? That's not how starts work.
- I'm guessing Hamilton didn't see Vettel, "Luckily for him" = lucky Bottas.
- Amusing or not this beyond the absurd point of driver support #-o .
#-o

Starts work very much like that, you look at the lights , you have the car ready to launch and if another car moves in your view, it can easily make you react and launch the car.

As an example, you have 8 athletes in the 100m sprint ready to go , 1 runner jumps the start and 2 or 3 follow him/her. So yes, thats exactly how starts work 8) :lol:
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Re: 2019 Japanese Grand Prix - Suzuka, Oct 11 - 13

Post by Mandrake » Thu Oct 17, 2019 3:12 pm

By the way, here the Kimi Start in Sochi again for comparison. He moves half a cars length. And then completely fails to launch afterwards. Vettel did so much better in stopping AND getting going again.

https://youtu.be/47Pn2bII_sg?t=83

foxmulder_ms
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Re: 2019 Japanese Grand Prix - Suzuka, Oct 11 - 13

Post by foxmulder_ms » Thu Oct 17, 2019 7:36 pm

Mandrake wrote:
Thu Oct 17, 2019 3:12 pm
By the way, here the Kimi Start in Sochi again for comparison. He moves half a cars length. And then completely fails to launch afterwards. Vettel did so much better in stopping AND getting going again.

https://youtu.be/47Pn2bII_sg?t=83
Yeas... Vettel is a legend when it comes to jump start technique.

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Re: 2019 Japanese Grand Prix - Suzuka, Oct 11 - 13

Post by Silent Storm » Thu Oct 17, 2019 11:00 pm

Mandrake wrote:
Thu Oct 17, 2019 3:12 pm
By the way, here the Kimi Start in Sochi again for comparison. He moves half a cars length. And then completely fails to launch afterwards. Vettel did so much better in stopping AND getting going again.

https://youtu.be/47Pn2bII_sg?t=83
Kimi purposely let others pass in the hopes that he wouldn't get penalised for the jump start as he didn't gain any position. It's similar to how you let the other car pass if you run off the track and overtake someone. Vettel was on pole position, he couldn't do that and let 20 cars pass him as that would be dangerous.
There is always a way, and it usually doesn't work.

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Re: 2019 Japanese Grand Prix - Suzuka, Oct 11 - 13

Post by iotar__ » Fri Oct 18, 2019 1:25 pm

Silent Storm wrote:
Thu Oct 17, 2019 11:00 pm
Mandrake wrote:
Thu Oct 17, 2019 3:12 pm
By the way, here the Kimi Start in Sochi again for comparison. He moves half a cars length. And then completely fails to launch afterwards. Vettel did so much better in stopping AND getting going again.

https://youtu.be/47Pn2bII_sg?t=83
Kimi purposely let others pass in the hopes that he wouldn't get penalised for the jump start as he didn't gain any position. It's similar to how you let the other car pass if you run off the track and overtake someone. Vettel was on pole position, he couldn't do that and let 20 cars pass him as that would be dangerous.
- It should not matter
- It makes sense in cutting corners/overtakes but not with starts. One is wheel to wheel racing with all the risks and circumstances the other clear cut, 01, measurable transgression.
- it is still dangerous (another reason) doesn't matter if it's Raikkonen's or Vettel's case. Third reason: risk/reward and no punishment if it goes wrong at the most important stage of the race. Yeah try to jump start, if you're within a limit you gain if you are not just give back position - it's not good enough :) .
- didn't follow Vettel's case, I have no stomach for FIA BS, I know they brought out some measurements :roll:
- (correct me if I'm wrong) remember when Maldonado started in a wrong box (one behind) and got a penalty? So much for not gaining an advantage as an excuse.

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Re: 2019 Japanese Grand Prix - Suzuka, Oct 11 - 13

Post by maxxer » Fri Oct 18, 2019 7:38 pm

iotar__ wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 1:25 pm
Silent Storm wrote:
Thu Oct 17, 2019 11:00 pm
Mandrake wrote:
Thu Oct 17, 2019 3:12 pm
By the way, here the Kimi Start in Sochi again for comparison. He moves half a cars length. And then completely fails to launch afterwards. Vettel did so much better in stopping AND getting going again.

https://youtu.be/47Pn2bII_sg?t=83
Kimi purposely let others pass in the hopes that he wouldn't get penalised for the jump start as he didn't gain any position. It's similar to how you let the other car pass if you run off the track and overtake someone. Vettel was on pole position, he couldn't do that and let 20 cars pass him as that would be dangerous.
- It should not matter
- It makes sense in cutting corners/overtakes but not with starts. One is wheel to wheel racing with all the risks and circumstances the other clear cut, 01, measurable transgression.
- it is still dangerous (another reason) doesn't matter if it's Raikkonen's or Vettel's case. Third reason: risk/reward and no punishment if it goes wrong at the most important stage of the race. Yeah try to jump start, if you're within a limit you gain if you are not just give back position - it's not good enough :) .
- didn't follow Vettel's case, I have no stomach for FIA BS, I know they brought out some measurements :roll:
- (correct me if I'm wrong) remember when Maldonado started in a wrong box (one behind) and got a penalty? So much for not gaining an advantage as an excuse.
They team has all the telemetry of when he dropped the cluth or such so its nonsense to talk about margin.
Kimi messed up his start and got the penalty even though so this driver should also have had it.
But it seems it is the veto team so they need them.Same as vettel deserved a few black flags and race bans before