2019 Renault F1 Team

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PowerandtheGlory
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Re: 2019 Renault F1 Team

Post by PowerandtheGlory » Thu Oct 17, 2019 12:00 pm

astracrazy wrote:
Thu Oct 17, 2019 10:52 am
Emag wrote:
Sun Oct 13, 2019 1:24 pm
Snorked wrote:
Sun Oct 13, 2019 1:07 pm
Hell hath no fury like a Hulk scorned 😁

After they ended his F1 career, maybe he ratted them out?
Highly doubt it. There would obviously be contract clauses in place for those sort of things. If he did indeed do it, and Renault proves that, Nico would face some very expensive lawsuits, not to mention getting his reputation destroyed. Not worth the risk of killing your career to get some petty "revenge".
I don't think that's 100% correct, yes it would impact his career (unofficially) but I don't think there is going to be lawsuits. Your essentially suggesting if somebody outs a cheater, the cheater is found guilty, then the cheater can take the individual to court and the law would be on the cheats side. I'm sure the law would be on the individual side not the cheats.

There would be non-disclosure clauses of course, but I'm sure it would fall apart if the tech is illegal because there is a point where it could become blackmail.

Normally the driver would not be told enough details in the first place.

PowerandtheGlory wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 8:34 am
I think the issue seems to be if the brake bias is pre-set.. But if the driver controls this then its not and issue. Say they have 3 settings for around the track and the driver cycles between each one?
ARTICLE 11 : BRAKE SYSTEM
11.1.4 Any change to, or modulation of, the brake system, other than any movement of the minimal flexible parts described in Article 11.4 to 11.6, whilst the car is on the track must be made by the driver's direct physical input or by the system referred to in Article 11.9, and may not be pre‐set.

3 pre-set settings?
Currently Drivers are allowed to control/cycle/change between brake bias settings (as i understand this) so the settings for the brakes, hybrid recovery, and other various things can be controlled by driver.

In the sense, the 'DRIVER pre-sets this system..' a grey area

The Renault mode has a reset for every lap so the driver re-sets the setting manually, and the car knows where on the track to alters the bias, but only if the driver sets this beforehand.

If the driver didn't re-set the system then the car wouldn't know, so instead of the driver fiddling with buttons all the way round they just 'prime' the system and then re-do this every lap.

Not sure if the setting also controls recovery and other things, like maybe a party mode where the bias helps towards recovery for example during a cool-down lap..

But anyway, most of this is hear-say, hopefully we get and answer soon
“I don't believe in luck, luck is preparation and taking your opportunity” Ross Brawn

djos
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Re: 2019 Renault F1 Team

Post by djos » Thu Oct 17, 2019 8:36 pm

The system could be operated by the driver by a single button and be entirely legal.

Eg the brake settings for each track section are stored in the system and the driver simply presses a button on the wheel to cycle through them.
The impossible often has a kind of integrity which the merely improbable lacks.

FittingMechanics
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Re: 2019 Renault F1 Team

Post by FittingMechanics » Thu Oct 17, 2019 9:18 pm

djos wrote:
Thu Oct 17, 2019 8:36 pm
The system could be operated by the driver by a single button and be entirely legal.

Eg the brake settings for each track section are stored in the system and the driver simply presses a button on the wheel to cycle through them.
By that logic, car could have automatic brakes which are operated by a driver pressing the button and the car slows down to ideal speed for the corner. I doubt it works that way.

djos
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Re: 2019 Renault F1 Team

Post by djos » Thu Oct 17, 2019 9:43 pm

From what I’ve seen, most teams have a bunch of presets available via a rotary dial on the wheel. Cycling thru them in a sequence, via a button, would be no different.

I’m not saying Renault aren’t cheating (they could be), but im just wondering if there is a logical and legal explanation for them using a button.
The impossible often has a kind of integrity which the merely improbable lacks.

FittingMechanics
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Re: 2019 Renault F1 Team

Post by FittingMechanics » Fri Oct 18, 2019 8:08 am

djos wrote:
Thu Oct 17, 2019 9:43 pm
From what I’ve seen, most teams have a bunch of presets available via a rotary dial on the wheel. Cycling thru them in a sequence, via a button, would be no different.

I’m not saying Renault aren’t cheating (they could be), but im just wondering if there is a logical and legal explanation for them using a button.
Was it confirmed that they used the button to cycle through?

Also having a preset such sa 55,56,57,58,59 and 60% front brake bias is much different than having button cycle through "55,47, 52, 60, 58". With this situation developing, I am wondering why are Red Bull so good on brakes. Is it possible that they have some kind of similar trick? After all, Ricciardo joined Renault this year.

Capharol
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Re: 2019 Renault F1 Team

Post by Capharol » Fri Oct 18, 2019 8:39 am

djos wrote:
Thu Oct 17, 2019 9:43 pm
From what I’ve seen, most teams have a bunch of presets available via a rotary dial on the wheel. Cycling thru them in a sequence, via a button, would be no different.

I’m not saying Renault aren’t cheating (they could be), but im just wondering if there is a logical and legal explanation for them using a button.
i guess you misunderstood the complain from RP
the driver MUST switch the brake-balance by themselves and this MUST be done manual, yes these balances are pre-set for every track and saved under buttons which the driver has to use to switch and not by any sensor that detects where the car is on track and automatically change the brake balance without the drivers input
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djos
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Re: 2019 Renault F1 Team

Post by djos » Fri Oct 18, 2019 9:52 am

I understand it just fine, however there are many ways to change the presets legally and I’m sure using a single button to cycle through them is still legal as it’s still driver controlled.
The impossible often has a kind of integrity which the merely improbable lacks.

Juzh
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Re: 2019 Renault F1 Team

Post by Juzh » Fri Oct 18, 2019 12:36 pm

ricciardo coming trough the field in suzuka (10 minutes):
https://streamable.com/s53qn

diffuser
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Re: 2019 Renault F1 Team

Post by diffuser » Fri Oct 18, 2019 2:05 pm

djos wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 1:33 am
RZS10 wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 12:44 am
Except that it's straight up cheating (if that is indeed what they're doing, ofc) because it's against tech. regulations

ARTICLE 11 : BRAKE SYSTEM
11.1.4 Any change to, or modulation of, the brake system, other than any movement of the minimal flexible parts described in Article 11.4 to 11.6, whilst the car is on the track must be made by the driver's direct physical input or by the system referred to in Article 11.9, and may not be pre‐set.
I dont see how they could implement this anyway due to the fact that the ECU is a spec unit and the Software is 100% FIA managed code.
MGU-K is tied to engine Maps. It Discharges at pre defined points. So the system already knows where it is on the track at all times. To have it increase and decrease recharging automagically at difffernt points of the track (brake bias) would be a fairly simple thing. Not saying they're doing it but it would be just the reverse of current that they use for deploying the electrical energy.

Kevinkirk
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Re: 2019 Renault F1 Team

Post by Kevinkirk » Fri Oct 18, 2019 5:56 pm

"pre-set lap distance-depent brake bias adjustement system".
I think the problem is that the system may not only be a corner to corner selection but the distance dependant adjustment could be lap by lap as well allowing for tyre deg.

bucker
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Re: 2019 Renault F1 Team

Post by bucker » Fri Oct 18, 2019 8:07 pm

Based on video. Ricciardo is being told "don't forget to reset brake bias". Two or three corners later he changes something with his left hand. On onboard video you can see that he does this every single lap at the same point on the track.

saviour stivala
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Re: 2019 Renault F1 Team

Post by saviour stivala » Sun Oct 20, 2019 10:24 am

Some F1 sites were comparing this Racing Pont accusation (protest) of Renault automated brake bias system to the past spy-gate and crash-gate. I believe that they are far of the mark in their comparison. If this accusation turns-out to be true/judged to be true, it in my opinion can only be compared in gravity to the 2005 BAR-007 deliberately breaking the sports rules for which it was banned for two races with stripping of points from the last race plus a further six-month ban suspended for a year. The offence back than was “found to have a secondary fuel tank which when drained left the car under the minimum weight limit.

diffuser
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Re: 2019 Renault F1 Team

Post by diffuser » Sun Oct 20, 2019 2:30 pm

saviour stivala wrote:
Sun Oct 20, 2019 10:24 am
Some F1 sites were comparing this Racing Pont accusation (protest) of Renault automated brake bias system to the past spy-gate and crash-gate. I believe that they are far of the mark in their comparison. If this accusation turns-out to be true/judged to be true, it in my opinion can only be compared in gravity to the 2005 BAR-007 deliberately breaking the sports rules for which it was banned for two races with stripping of points from the last race plus a further six-month ban suspended for a year. The offence back than was “found to have a secondary fuel tank which when drained left the car under the minimum weight limit.
Agree, this doesn't make the car any faster. Just gives the drivers one less thing to do.

proteus
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Re: 2019 Renault F1 Team

Post by proteus » Sun Oct 20, 2019 4:32 pm

They will probably just ban it from using it again, which will be hard enough for them since the car is not shining.
If i would get the money to start my own F1 team, i would revive Arrows

Greg_OR
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Re: 2019 Renault F1 Team

Post by Greg_OR » Mon Oct 21, 2019 2:22 am

diffuser wrote:
Sun Oct 20, 2019 2:30 pm
Agree, this doesn't make the car any faster. Just gives the drivers one less thing to do.
But if the system is bit more complicated and can adjust brake balance while braking in to the corner?
This would be something other drivers cant do, but could it make any gains?, maybe in some specific long corners?
What you think?