Silly Season 2020/2021 (starting with silliness in 2019)

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langedweil
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Re: Silly Season 2020/2021 (starting with silliness in 2019)

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3jawchuck
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Re: Silly Season 2020/2021 (starting with silliness in 2019)

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langedweil wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 3:55 am
https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/59931/re ... pear-.html
That's nasty if true ...
If it is true then Renault will surely be leaving F1 as constructor and engine supplier? I guess the question then is will they completely disappear, or will they be bought out by someone and rebranded? Is anyone new really that interested in taking F1 on seriously these days?
“There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely games.” --Ernest Hemingway

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Morteza
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Re: Silly Season 2020/2021 (starting with silliness in 2019)

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I had no idea where to put this, but here you go
"A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool."~William Shakespeare

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langedweil
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Re: Silly Season 2020/2021 (starting with silliness in 2019)

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3jawchuck wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 7:09 am
langedweil wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 3:55 am
https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/59931/re ... pear-.html
That's nasty if true ...
If it is true then Renault will surely be leaving F1 as constructor and engine supplier? I guess the question then is will they completely disappear, or will they be bought out by someone and rebranded? Is anyone new really that interested in taking F1 on seriously these days?
Nasty in the sense that a brand as big as Renault might disappear just like that ..
Aside from F1 ..

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: Silly Season 2020/2021 (starting with silliness in 2019)

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If the team can prove that their model is profitable they should be OK. The budget cap should really help... But are sponsors still willing to spend as much that's the question.
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adrianjordan
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Re: Silly Season 2020/2021 (starting with silliness in 2019)

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 3:08 pm
If the team can prove that their model is profitable they should be OK. The budget cap should really help... But are sponsors still willing to spend as much that's the question.
Once the sport gets up and running again I'd say yes. At the end of the day, the ROI for F1 sponsorship is good. Just look at the costs for a single Superbowl advert compared to a season of F1 as a title sponsor for a midfield team.

The Enstone team will survive, the engine side probably less likely.

Renault as a car manufacturer? I think someone will step in and save them. My guess would be a Chinese investor.
In 2007 I had the chance to go to a meet-and-greet with an F1 test driver. I decided not to as I didn't think he'd even amount to much...he was the BMW Sauber test driver and his name was Sebastian Vettel...

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gcdugas
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Re: Silly Season 2020/2021 (starting with silliness in 2019)

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Jolle wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 11:44 am
It would be a first... never did two multiple world champions share a team.
Senna and Prost with multiple WCs were teammates in McLaren.
Innovation over refinement is the prefered path to performance. -- Get rid of the dopey regs in F1

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Re: Silly Season 2020/2021 (starting with silliness in 2019)

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gcdugas wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 1:03 am
Jolle wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 11:44 am
It would be a first... never did two multiple world champions share a team.
Senna and Prost with multiple WCs were teammates in McLaren.
When they were team mates, Senna wasn’t a multiple World Champions yet

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Big Tea
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Re: Silly Season 2020/2021 (starting with silliness in 2019)

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adrianjordan wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 11:00 pm
PlatinumZealot wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 3:08 pm
If the team can prove that their model is profitable they should be OK. The budget cap should really help... But are sponsors still willing to spend as much that's the question.
Once the sport gets up and running again I'd say yes. At the end of the day, the ROI for F1 sponsorship is good. Just look at the costs for a single Superbowl advert compared to a season of F1 as a title sponsor for a midfield team.

The Enstone team will survive, the engine side probably less likely.

Renault as a car manufacturer? I think someone will step in and save them. My guess would be a Chinese investor.
Are Renault not already a 'partner' with Nisan? Possible management rejig rather than fall through?
One test is worth a thousand expert opinions

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raymondu999
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Re: Silly Season 2020/2021 (starting with silliness in 2019)

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IIRC they own 50% of each other. Hence the Carlos Ghosn link previously
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PlatinumZealot
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Re: Silly Season 2020/2021 (starting with silliness in 2019)

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Yeah and there is always trust issues between the French side and the Japanese side.
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Big Tea
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Re: Silly Season 2020/2021 (starting with silliness in 2019)

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
Mon May 25, 2020 2:13 pm
Yeah and there is always trust issues between the French side and the Japanese side.
Did you forget to add an emoji maybe?
One test is worth a thousand expert opinions

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Racer X
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Re: Silly Season 2020/2021 (starting with silliness in 2019)

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It's kinda of funny how Abiteboul made fun of Redbull for needing an engine and driver once.... Yet now it is he who might not even have an F1 team'.
ASTON MARTIN //AMG

zeph
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Re: Silly Season 2020/2021 (starting with silliness in 2019)

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Quite a few misconceptions here about the Renault-Nissan-Mitsubishi alliance.

From wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renault%E ... i_Alliance
The strategic partnership between Renault, Nissan and Mitsubishi is not a merger or an acquisition. The three companies are joined together through a cross-sharing agreement.
The Alliance is a strategic partnership based on the rationale that, due to substantial cross-shareholding investments, each company acts in the financial interest of the other—while maintaining individual brand identities and independent corporate cultures. Renault currently has a 43.4 percent (fully voting) stake in Nissan and Nissan holds a 15 percent (non-voting) stake in Renault effectively giving Renault control.
The Alliance began on 27 March 1999. At the time, the auto industry was in a period of rapid consolidation. Numerous companies merged or were acquired in high-profile deals, most notably Daimler's acquisition of Chrysler in 1998 (which dissolved in 2007, when the companies separated).

At the time it was created, Renault bought 36.8 percent of Nissan's outstanding stock and Nissan vowed to buy into Renault when it was financially able. In 2001, after the company's turnaround from near-bankruptcy, Nissan bought a 15 percent stake in Renault, which in turn increased its stake in Nissan to 44.4 percent.
The crux of the matter is this:
Although Nissan is far larger and more profitable than Renault (and has a market value approximately double Renault's as of November 2018), Renault has effective control over the Alliance due to its significant voting stake in Nissan and its Nissan board seats (contrasted with Nissan's non-voting stake in Renault).
In addition, the single largest shareholder in Renault is the French government, which may have the effect of placing Nissan policy under French government control and has contributed to resentment over the terms of the Alliance within both Nissan and Japan.
I'm by no means qualified to comment on the intricacies of this corporate arrangement, but it seems the whole Ghosn case was an attempt by the Japanese to change the balance of power within the alliance.
Last edited by zeph on Tue May 26, 2020 6:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

NL_Fer
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Re: Silly Season 2020/2021 (starting with silliness in 2019)

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Renault won’t collapse. Their cars have purpose for allot of buyers. But most of them are looking for a nice, comfortable car. Not a sporty or premium one. So Renault has F1 heritage, but Motorsport is not helping their brand image or sales at the moment.