Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
Bill
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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I don't see any material difference between those images they show peaking order before Japanese race before spec 4 was run in anger.my hunch tells me now that Honda probably now has the best pu bearing Merc reliability issues and Ferrari issues with Fia.

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etusch
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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PlatinumZealot
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Bill wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 9:53 am
I don't see any material difference between those images they show peaking order before Japanese race before spec 4 was run in anger.my hunch tells me now that Honda probably now has the best pu bearing Merc reliability issues and Ferrari issues with Fia.
Mercedes did some architectural improvements for this year. They haven't done a major one since 2017... So I hope they have developed put reliability issues on the dyno and hit the ground running more power than 2019. Ferrari also did a big change, like they do almost every year but have lost power this time around in order to fix reliability. If Ferrari and Merc used the break wisely Honda has its work cut out still.
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Bill
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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According to Rosberg romour has it that Honda produces more power than Merc ,the Honda brass seems more confident than usual at minimum they think they can match Merc for power.

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etusch
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Since regulations about oil burning and fuel flow, mercedes and Ferrari lost most of their advantages. Mercedes engine is still very good but especially their car is wonderfull. They are doing very good job about it.
When we look engine performance I would choose Honda after Gasly Ham drag race.
I don't count ferrari.
I think 2020 WDC will be decided by drivers who are Ham and Vers and chassis which are Redbull and Mercedes. If mercedes is still better more than Verstappen or Honda engine performance can neutralize, mercedes can get it again. Otherwise my vote for Redbull Honda. ( I am aware that this contains wishfull thinking ) I say this because I assume Honda engine is same or best. I assume Verstappen is faster than Ham.

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PlatinumZealot
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Remember the Mercdes engine was weakend by high altitude in Sao Paulo combined with the characteristics of their turbocharger. It will not be the case at low altitiude tracks.
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Pyrone89
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Any news on the spec 1.1 or 2.0 that Red Bull is said to bring to Austria according to Dutch news and Schummie on the Verstappen forum?

Dee
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 10:42 pm
Bill wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 9:53 am
I don't see any material difference between those images they show peaking order before Japanese race before spec 4 was run in anger.my hunch tells me now that Honda probably now has the best pu bearing Merc reliability issues and Ferrari issues with Fia.
Mercedes did some architectural improvements for this year. They haven't done a major one since 2017... So I hope they have developed put reliability issues on the dyno and hit the ground running more power than 2019. Ferrari also did a big change, like they do almost every year but have lost power this time around in order to fix reliability. If Ferrari and Merc used the break wisely Honda has its work cut out still.
Mercedes had engine issues all through testing. They have greater power but greater unreliability. When was the last time you saw them have so many problems in the space of a few days? They ran on less power on week 2. They may say they have fixed the problem but I don't believe that. You cannot fix something like that easily. The Mercedes powered cars that got the new spec engine updates last year failed on the grid as well so this has been an ongoing problem with this new era of engines

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PlatinumZealot
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That small reliability problem in testing was a known issue. It was not a big deal. Mercedes knew what it was going into testing and they said they would have had it fixed before Austrailia. I am not worried about it at all.

All teams are now fortunate that they have less races this season to run their engines. So fuel efriciency is going to be key advantage running more power for longer.
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Pany
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Right. Some team may also choose to use three engines, always at max power, sacrificing one race. Who knows
PlatinumZealot wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 7:04 pm
That small reliability problem in testing was a known issue. It was not a big deal. Mercedes knew what it was going into testing and they said they would have had it fixed before Austrailia. I am not worried about it at all.

All teams are now fortunate that they have less races this season to run their engines. So fuel efriciency is going to be key advantage running more power for longer.

Sasha
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Spec 1.1 is supposed to be 1/3 of the expected power gain for this season.
Original there was going to be three spec s this season.

During the off season Honda's focus was on low altitude power. At Australia GP their thinking was they was equal to MB at the end of last season.
Spec 1.1 should be very close to MB now.
Ferrari lost power after being called out for cheating....who really knows if they was but they sure lost performance after being called out.

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Pyrone89
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New spec according to F1.com.

Honda used a smart exception in the rules.

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/arti ... FliDk.html

Alexf1
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Thanks for the link. Interesting. According to Wazari earlier there was originally only one big upgrade planned for this season and that was spec 3, to be introduced right after the summer break. So while this upgrade can be true it would still be close to spec 2 at the most, so minor upgrade compared to what was to come end of August. The article does not mention how many extra weeks Sakura was open compared to the other engine manufacturers. Maybe its only 1 or a few weeks which would not make too much of a difference. Hope Honda has that significant upgrade ready by the time engine nr. 2 goes in, which should be around end of August but I fear that would be too soon.

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Pyrone89
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Alexf1 wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:31 am
Thanks for the link. Interesting. According to Wazari earlier there was originally only one big upgrade planned for this season and that was spec 3, to be introduced right after the summer break. So while this upgrade can be true it would still be close to spec 2 at the most, so minor upgrade compared to what was to come end of August. The article does not mention how many extra weeks Sakura was open compared to the other engine manufacturers. Maybe its only 1 or a few weeks which would not make too much of a difference. Hope Honda has that significant upgrade ready by the time engine nr. 2 goes in, which should be around end of August but I fear that would be too soon.
Unfortunately that is not allowed. Frozen spec for whole season. And I think the lockdown has really hurt Honda in fact, because now they cant have spec 2 and 3. If they could have gotten spec 2 that would have been good, but now I fear they will just lag behind still that little bit.

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etusch
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They can do mgu-h and one performance update. Some kind of token system. And reliability update is allowed if fia approve. In fact it is obvious that fia can be cheated especially if you are ferrari. I am not sure if fia can see a performance update introduced as reliability update
Last edited by etusch on Tue Jun 30, 2020 3:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.