McLaren F1 successor

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e36jon
e36jon
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Re: McLaren F1 successor

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Holm86 wrote:
Fri Aug 07, 2020 4:05 pm
sosic2121 wrote:
Fri Aug 07, 2020 12:08 pm
Holm86 wrote:
Wed Aug 05, 2020 11:55 pm
Does anybody know about the inclined axis valves he is talking about?? What's the concept around that??
Could it be that normally (intake) valve stems are parallel, but not in this engine?
I don't know, it's the first time I hear the terminology of inclined axis valves
Greetings all

I didn't listen/see/read the original reference that started this conversation. I believe the concept under discussion is usually called 'radial valves'. If you Google that term you'll find lots of explanations with illustrations, descriptions of benefits, etc.

Cheers,

Jon

sosic2121
sosic2121
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Re: McLaren F1 successor

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e36jon wrote:
Fri Aug 07, 2020 6:01 pm
Holm86 wrote:
Fri Aug 07, 2020 4:05 pm
sosic2121 wrote:
Fri Aug 07, 2020 12:08 pm

Could it be that normally (intake) valve stems are parallel, but not in this engine?
I don't know, it's the first time I hear the terminology of inclined axis valves
Greetings all

I didn't listen/see/read the original reference that started this conversation. I believe the concept under discussion is usually called 'radial valves'. If you Google that term you'll find lots of explanations with illustrations, descriptions of benefits, etc.

Cheers,

Jon
Thank you for the information.
So, my assumption was wrong.

Gordon Murray said the engine has inclined axis valves. We are trying to figure out what that means. Any guess?

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Morteza
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Re: McLaren F1 successor

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Road & Track wrote:Freed from road-car emissions and noise constraints, the T.50's Cosworth V-12 gets new heads and camshafts, a higher compression ratio, a less restrictive exhaust system, and a higher RAM air intake to make 720 horsepower. Redline is set at 12,100 rpm, and the T.50S ditches the road car's six-speed manual for a paddle-shift XTrac Instantaneous Gearchange System (IGS). The IGS is a single-clutch pre-selector six-speed, which has the next gear ready as soon as you pull the paddle, so you get dual-clutch speed without the weight. Murray says the weight difference between the manual and the IGS is negligible. GMA says the S weighs just 1962 pounds (890 kg), thanks largely to a much pared-back interior and thinner body panels.
One figure is up, though—downforce. GMA added a new front splitter, dive planes, a central fin, and a delta-shaped rear wing, which looks similar to the front-wing on Murray's championship-winning Brabham BT52. With the rear-mounted fan spinning at 7000 rpm, the T.50S will generate 3307 pounds of downforce. And it's capable of more.

"We actually got up to 4189 pounds in CFD, but with the wheel and tire envelope we have on the car, we couldn't support that. So we decided to back it down to 3307 pounds," Murray says.
Source
"A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool."~William Shakespeare

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humble sabot
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Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2007 9:33 am

Re: McLaren F1 successor

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think Honda RVFC but with two cams in the usual place.
Image

I was trying to find an example of it used in an car engine but the one I see in my head isn't tied to any names.
Essentially though, the benefit is that you naturally build a more three dimensional dome out of the angles between the valve faces, rather than the pent roof usually forced by parallel valves. It makes for a really neat looking surface on the camshaft since it's not perpendicular with the rotating axis.
the four immutable forces:
static balance
dynamic balance
static imbalance
dynamic imbalance

Mchamilton
Mchamilton
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Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2011 4:16 pm

Re: McLaren F1 successor

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Morteza wrote:
Thu Sep 03, 2020 5:02 pm
https://twitter.com/PlanetGMA/status/13 ... 7575987200
Road & Track wrote:Freed from road-car emissions and noise constraints, the T.50's Cosworth V-12 gets new heads and camshafts, a higher compression ratio, a less restrictive exhaust system, and a higher RAM air intake to make 720 horsepower. Redline is set at 12,100 rpm, and the T.50S ditches the road car's six-speed manual for a paddle-shift XTrac Instantaneous Gearchange System (IGS). The IGS is a single-clutch pre-selector six-speed, which has the next gear ready as soon as you pull the paddle, so you get dual-clutch speed without the weight. Murray says the weight difference between the manual and the IGS is negligible. GMA says the S weighs just 1962 pounds (890 kg), thanks largely to a much pared-back interior and thinner body panels.
One figure is up, though—downforce. GMA added a new front splitter, dive planes, a central fin, and a delta-shaped rear wing, which looks similar to the front-wing on Murray's championship-winning Brabham BT52. With the rear-mounted fan spinning at 7000 rpm, the T.50S will generate 3307 pounds of downforce. And it's capable of more.

"We actually got up to 4189 pounds in CFD, but with the wheel and tire envelope we have on the car, we couldn't support that. So we decided to back it down to 3307 pounds," Murray says.
Source
sounds like a similar box to an Aventador, which is practice is actually pretty shocking

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Morteza
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Joined: Wed Feb 10, 2010 5:23 pm
Location: Bushehr, Iran

Re: McLaren F1 successor

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"A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool."~William Shakespeare

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humble sabot
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Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2007 9:33 am

Re: McLaren F1 successor

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Dario Franchitti's accent is doing my head in. Scottish? Italian? Is that what happens to your voice when you live an anglo life in Monaco after retiring from F1? I don't even dislike it, but it's breaking my brain.

the GMA V12 sounds ok at pre break in revs, definitely rev happy.
Amazing that such a tiny NA motor is eating up so much space inside an Ultima with all that airbox and the radiator over the gearbox.
the four immutable forces:
static balance
dynamic balance
static imbalance
dynamic imbalance

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jjn9128
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Joined: Tue May 02, 2017 10:53 pm

Re: McLaren F1 successor

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humble sabot wrote:
Sat Oct 17, 2020 7:52 am
Dario Franchitti's accent is doing my head in. Scottish? Italian? Is that what happens to your voice when you live an anglo life in Monaco after retiring from F1? I don't even dislike it, but it's breaking my brain.
Really?? Sounds all Scottish to me.
Morteza wrote:
Thu Sep 03, 2020 5:02 pm
Road & Track wrote:. With the rear-mounted fan spinning at 7000 rpm, the T.50S will generate 3307 pounds of downforce. And it's capable of more.

"We actually got up to 4189 pounds in CFD, but with the wheel and tire envelope we have on the car, we couldn't support that. So we decided to back it down to 3307 pounds," Murray says.
Source
Pounds???? At what speed???
#aerogandalf
"There is one big friend. It is downforce. And once you have this it’s a big mate and it’s helping a lot." Robert Kubica

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Andres125sx
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Location: Madrid, Spain

Re: McLaren F1 successor

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jjn9128 wrote:
Sat Oct 17, 2020 9:31 am
humble sabot wrote:
Sat Oct 17, 2020 7:52 am
Dario Franchitti's accent is doing my head in. Scottish? Italian? Is that what happens to your voice when you live an anglo life in Monaco after retiring from F1? I don't even dislike it, but it's breaking my brain.
Really?? Sounds all Scottish to me.
Morteza wrote:
Thu Sep 03, 2020 5:02 pm
Road & Track wrote:. With the rear-mounted fan spinning at 7000 rpm, the T.50S will generate 3307 pounds of downforce. And it's capable of more.

"We actually got up to 4189 pounds in CFD, but with the wheel and tire envelope we have on the car, we couldn't support that. So we decided to back it down to 3307 pounds," Murray says.
Source
Pounds???? At what speed???

Road & Track wrote:. With the rear-mounted fan spinning at 7000 rpm, the T.50S will generate 3307 pounds of downforce.
From still? =P~

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jjn9128
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Re: McLaren F1 successor

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Andres125sx wrote:
Sat Oct 17, 2020 10:38 am
From still? =P~
It doesn't full on seal to the floor, the fans suck off the boundary layer to keep air attached in the over-expanded diffuser.
#aerogandalf
"There is one big friend. It is downforce. And once you have this it’s a big mate and it’s helping a lot." Robert Kubica

Ringleheim
Ringleheim
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Joined: Thu Feb 22, 2018 9:02 am

Re: McLaren F1 successor

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There are many excellent videos on Youtube of various people interviewing Gordon Murray about this car, and talking in detail about its design and evolution.

There's a great one from Harry of Harry's Garage fame, also one from Chris Harris, and many more.

Check them out if you are interested in this car!

Pat Pending
Pat Pending
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Joined: Mon Feb 22, 2016 12:11 pm

Re: McLaren F1 successor

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Ringleheim wrote:
Sat Oct 17, 2020 2:30 pm
There are many excellent videos on Youtube of various people interviewing Gordon Murray about this car, and talking in detail about its design and evolution.
That must have been a mind numbing day for Gordon - back-to-back interviews with each journo asking basically the same questions! :lol:

Ringleheim
Ringleheim
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Re: McLaren F1 successor

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Pat Pending wrote:
Wed Oct 21, 2020 12:38 pm
Ringleheim wrote:
Sat Oct 17, 2020 2:30 pm
There are many excellent videos on Youtube of various people interviewing Gordon Murray about this car, and talking in detail about its design and evolution.
That must have been a mind numbing day for Gordon - back-to-back interviews with each journo asking basically the same questions! :lol:
No, not like that at all. These are on different occasions and the "interview" amounts to a detailed conversation about Murray's past, his engineering philosophy, specifics on the car itself, etc. The car is sitting there as a prop for most of the conversations.

There's really good stuff out there.

I'm not a fan of the appearance of the car...I wish he had farmed out exterior design to experts, but overall it's a fascinating project. I don't like the fan at the back either, but that is kind of a Murray TM at this point.

Still an awesome car all the way around.

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humble sabot
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Re: McLaren F1 successor

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Ringleheim wrote:
Wed Oct 21, 2020 9:24 pm
Pat Pending wrote: That must have been a mind numbing day for Gordon - back-to-back interviews with each journo asking basically the same questions! :lol:
No, not like that at all. These are on different occasions and the "interview" amounts to a detailed conversation about Murray's past, his engineering philosophy, specifics on the car itself, etc. The car is sitting there as a prop for most of the conversations.
OH no! Definitely like that! I watched all of them, hoping for new questions, but it was the same thing over and over and over and over again. And they were all clearly shot within a very short span of time. And Gordon's answers were almost precisely the same everytime.
the four immutable forces:
static balance
dynamic balance
static imbalance
dynamic imbalance