[ 2020 ] Scuderia Ferrari - Ferrari

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e30ernest
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Re: [ 2020 ] Scuderia Ferrari - Ferrari

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diffuser wrote:
Tue Oct 13, 2020 3:16 pm
I think it's easy to have calmness when your winning. I remember alot of questioning of Hamilton abilities during those last few years at McLaren. The car didn't have the pace. He had to take more risk to get ahead. The more risks you take the more often it ends in tears. Wasn't his fault the car didn't have the pace.

I think with Mecr it all starts with the budget, they have the most people that work for the F1 team. Makes it easier to indetify weak links and remove those people. Plus the got started early on the current PU regs and were miles ahead of everyone else. Once you they got ahead, they just kept it rolling. Of course with the budget and the people you need the guy that is making the right choices. Every wrong choice wastes money from that budget advantage.
But the Mercs weren't always winning and they were pretty calm then as a team back then. And I don't think it is just the budget since I am sure other companies like Ferrari and Toyota had the budget too. It's a management thing I think, being able to stand the pressures from the outside world to maintain internal stability to find solutions.

When the Mercs were tearing through their tires, I don't seem to remember as much calls for heads to roll as there has been for Ferrari when they don't do too good.

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diffuser
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Re: [ 2020 ] Scuderia Ferrari - Ferrari

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e30ernest wrote:
Tue Oct 13, 2020 4:33 pm
diffuser wrote:
Tue Oct 13, 2020 3:16 pm
I think it's easy to have calmness when your winning. I remember alot of questioning of Hamilton abilities during those last few years at McLaren. The car didn't have the pace. He had to take more risk to get ahead. The more risks you take the more often it ends in tears. Wasn't his fault the car didn't have the pace.

I think with Mecr it all starts with the budget, they have the most people that work for the F1 team. Makes it easier to indetify weak links and remove those people. Plus the got started early on the current PU regs and were miles ahead of everyone else. Once you they got ahead, they just kept it rolling. Of course with the budget and the people you need the guy that is making the right choices. Every wrong choice wastes money from that budget advantage.
But the Mercs weren't always winning and they were pretty calm then as a team back then. And I don't think it is just the budget since I am sure other companies like Ferrari and Toyota had the budget too. It's a management thing I think, being able to stand the pressures from the outside world to maintain internal stability to find solutions.

When the Mercs were tearing through their tires, I don't seem to remember as much calls for heads to roll as there has been for Ferrari when they don't do too good.
I always thought they tore through tires cause they had more DF. They didn't change anything to fix that they just lobbied and won the battle for tougher tires. They did that by making them seem unsafe. Also with Ferrari how mcuh of the noise is from outside the team. How much is for inside. We really don't know what going on inside. Like why was Maurizio Arrivabene replaced?

In my defense I did say you need the right guy at the top otherwise you just waste resources. Like Ferrari did with thier PU when they explored improving PU performance by illegal means. That was hundreds of millions of $ that right now is giving them 0. Did Maurizio Arrivabene sanction that arm of Development? There was noise on the ground that Ferari had been cheating for a while. Did they think that it was just a matter of time before they got caught? Did they axed Arrivabene on approving that line of development?

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Big Tea
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Re: [ 2020 ] Scuderia Ferrari - Ferrari

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diffuser wrote:
Tue Oct 13, 2020 5:37 pm
e30ernest wrote:
Tue Oct 13, 2020 4:33 pm
diffuser wrote:
Tue Oct 13, 2020 3:16 pm
I think it's easy to have calmness when your winning. I remember alot of questioning of Hamilton abilities during those last few years at McLaren. The car didn't have the pace. He had to take more risk to get ahead. The more risks you take the more often it ends in tears. Wasn't his fault the car didn't have the pace.

I think with Mecr it all starts with the budget, they have the most people that work for the F1 team. Makes it easier to indetify weak links and remove those people. Plus the got started early on the current PU regs and were miles ahead of everyone else. Once you they got ahead, they just kept it rolling. Of course with the budget and the people you need the guy that is making the right choices. Every wrong choice wastes money from that budget advantage.
But the Mercs weren't always winning and they were pretty calm then as a team back then. And I don't think it is just the budget since I am sure other companies like Ferrari and Toyota had the budget too. It's a management thing I think, being able to stand the pressures from the outside world to maintain internal stability to find solutions.

When the Mercs were tearing through their tires, I don't seem to remember as much calls for heads to roll as there has been for Ferrari when they don't do too good.
I always thought they tore through tires cause they had more DF. They didn't change anything to fix that they just lobbied and won the battle for tougher tires. They did that by making them seem unsafe. Also with Ferrari how mcuh of the noise is from outside the team. How much is for inside. We really don't know what going on inside. Like why was Maurizio Arrivabene replaced?

In my defense I did say you need the right guy at the top otherwise you just waste resources. Like Ferrari did with thier PU when they explored improving PU performance by illegal means. That was hundreds of millions of $ that right now is giving them 0. Did Maurizio Arrivabene sanction that arm of Development? There was noise on the ground that Ferari had been cheating for a while. Did they think that it was just a matter of time before they got caught? Did they axed Arrivabene on approving that line of development?
It is probably so easy to get into a 'grey area' loop. You spend tens of millions on things that give you a tenth, then exploit a grey ares and it gives you another tenth for little cost and today, not weeks down the line.
(Just a little you understand, we would not do something blatant or cheat)

You use it for a while and the advantage starts shrinking so you move just a little more to the grey side.
(Just a tiny move. only enough to keep up with the opposition, I mean, They are probably cheating anyway)

Complaints come down from on high, what are you doing down there we are looking bad, fix it NOW.
Ah,cr... go on then just enough to be competitive...

Erm, we have been summoned to the stewards
I am very much in favour of filtered water. Preferably passed through a brewery

ryaan2904
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Re: [ 2020 ] Scuderia Ferrari - Ferrari

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Also, about the people/engineers working in Ferrari, I think that while they definitely need a leader up there to support Binotto (Binotto's totally alone out there), we cant surely say they need different engineers. These were the guys that made the 2017 and 2018 chassis. The 2019 and 2020 cars both had correlation problems, which Ferrari have said is due to the old 'Spider' simulator. They've already invested millions in a new simulator for the next seasons, so lets see what these guys do for 2022.

mika vs michael
mika vs michael
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Re: [ 2020 ] Scuderia Ferrari - Ferrari

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Ferrari should not accept engine freeze...
"It is necessary to relax your muscles when you can. Relaxing your brain is fatal." Stirling Moss

I tried this and I had understeer, I tried that and I had oversteer, at the end of the corner I just run out of talent

e30ernest
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Re: [ 2020 ] Scuderia Ferrari - Ferrari

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mika vs michael wrote:
Fri Oct 16, 2020 10:57 pm
Ferrari should not accept engine freeze...
Yeah I don't see any reason why they should. Red Bull at this point is just acting like a spoiled brat.

NathanE
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Re: [ 2020 ] Scuderia Ferrari - Ferrari

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e30ernest wrote:
Sat Oct 17, 2020 4:59 am
mika vs michael wrote:
Fri Oct 16, 2020 10:57 pm
Ferrari should not accept engine freeze...
Yeah I don't see any reason why they should. Red Bull at this point is just acting like a spoiled brat.
Yes, outrageous how a team should throw it's weight around, claiming to be special, expecting to be treated differently and threatening to leave the formula if it doesn't get its own way.

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El Scorchio
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Re: [ 2020 ] Scuderia Ferrari - Ferrari

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Well if Ferrari strongly don’t want an engine freeze and Red Bull say they do and they’ll pack up their toys and leave as they always do when things don’t go their way, then it’ll be bye bye Red Bull.

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diffuser
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Re: [ 2020 ] Scuderia Ferrari - Ferrari

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e30ernest wrote:
Sat Oct 17, 2020 4:59 am
mika vs michael wrote:
Fri Oct 16, 2020 10:57 pm
Ferrari should not accept engine freeze...
Yeah I don't see any reason why they should. Red Bull at this point is just acting like a spoiled brat.
With how far behind they are, they will not. RBR are basically asking for a locked in edge on Ferrari till 2026, presuming Ferrari can't catch up by the start of 2022.

A freeze is coming though, probably start of 2023. So if they can negotiate some kind of equilization of PU power, maybe.

Honestly,. What does that mean "RBR pulling out of F1"? They sell the teams for 1 billion dollars? They aren't gonna fold them and discard the value of those teams. Probably even selling both at once is not a good idea if you want to maximize the return.

Ringleheim
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Re: [ 2020 ] Scuderia Ferrari - Ferrari

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diffuser wrote:
Sat Oct 17, 2020 10:15 am
e30ernest wrote:
Sat Oct 17, 2020 4:59 am
mika vs michael wrote:
Fri Oct 16, 2020 10:57 pm
Ferrari should not accept engine freeze...
Yeah I don't see any reason why they should. Red Bull at this point is just acting like a spoiled brat.
With how far behind they are, they will not. RBR are basically asking for a locked in edge on Ferrari till 2026, presuming Ferrari can't catch up by the start of 2022.

A freeze is coming though, probably start of 2023. So if they can negotiate some kind of equilization of PU power, maybe.

Honestly,. What does that mean "RBR pulling out of F1"? They sell the teams for 1 billion dollars? They aren't gonna fold them and discard the value of those teams. Probably even selling both at once is not a good idea if you want to maximize the return.
I would put the value of RBR at something massively below $1 billion! Perhaps you were being facetious.

F1 is in poor health right now, has been for a while.

I wish we could skip the "new" formula coming in 2022 and move to the next era beyond it, NOW...

F1 needs to understand that it is an entertainment business, just like any other sport, and nothing more. Bring back screaming V12s, (I would make the drivers shift themselves again), and get rid of as much aero performance as possible so cars can follow one another.

Or, move the downforce making part of the car to under the central floor, as it used to be, so that the car has a bunch of downforce but it can STILL follow another car.

Get back to an extremely low weight around 1,000 lbs., keep the carbon brakes and ridiculously short braking distances, and go back to putting on a show.

Get the sparks back, naturally and not artificially.

Hell, I'd love to hike up the speed limit in the pits, but I realize that's not going to happen!

Entertain me, F1! You are boring now and have been for years.

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diffuser
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Re: [ 2020 ] Scuderia Ferrari - Ferrari

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Ringleheim wrote:
Sat Oct 17, 2020 2:36 pm
diffuser wrote:
Sat Oct 17, 2020 10:15 am
e30ernest wrote:
Sat Oct 17, 2020 4:59 am


Yeah I don't see any reason why they should. Red Bull at this point is just acting like a spoiled brat.
With how far behind they are, they will not. RBR are basically asking for a locked in edge on Ferrari till 2026, presuming Ferrari can't catch up by the start of 2022.

A freeze is coming though, probably start of 2023. So if they can negotiate some kind of equilization of PU power, maybe.

Honestly,. What does that mean "RBR pulling out of F1"? They sell the teams for 1 billion dollars? They aren't gonna fold them and discard the value of those teams. Probably even selling both at once is not a good idea if you want to maximize the return.
I would put the value of RBR at something massively below $1 billion! Perhaps you were being facetious.

F1 is in poor health right now, has been for a while.

I wish we could skip the "new" formula coming in 2022 and move to the next era beyond it, NOW...

F1 needs to understand that it is an entertainment business, just like any other sport, and nothing more. Bring back screaming V12s, (I would make the drivers shift themselves again), and get rid of as much aero performance as possible so cars can follow one another.

Or, move the downforce making part of the car to under the central floor, as it used to be, so that the car has a bunch of downforce but it can STILL follow another car.

Get back to an extremely low weight around 1,000 lbs., keep the carbon brakes and ridiculously short braking distances, and go back to putting on a show.

Get the sparks back, naturally and not artificially.

Hell, I'd love to hike up the speed limit in the pits, but I realize that's not going to happen!

Entertain me, F1! You are boring now and have been for years.
Both teams at 1 Billion, if that wasn't clear.

Williams walked away with180 million clean. The purchasers took the team and the debts.

Btw the 2022 rules move the DF creation to under the floor.

Liberty made the NFL what it is today. They will put entertainment back in.

e30ernest
e30ernest
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Re: [ 2020 ] Scuderia Ferrari - Ferrari

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Ringleheim wrote:
Sat Oct 17, 2020 2:36 pm
F1 needs to understand that it is an entertainment business, just like any other sport, and nothing more. Bring back screaming V12s, (I would make the drivers shift themselves again), and get rid of as much aero performance as possible so cars can follow one another.

Or, move the downforce making part of the car to under the central floor, as it used to be, so that the car has a bunch of downforce but it can STILL follow another car.
Those engines are never coming back unless the manufacturers leave the sport for good, and the engines are developed just for the sport. At this point, Formula 1 is losing relevance for automobile manufacturers (their future is in electric) so we'll never get back to big, noisy, inefficient engines.

As mentioned already, the new rules are set to move back towards ground effects. I'm looking forward to that too.

Scorpaguy
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Re: [ 2020 ] Scuderia Ferrari - Ferrari

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...cut off a metre in length/half-metre in width, limit to 2 single-plane wings (fixed area but freedom of placement), allow (but not mandate) 4wd/4ws, limit fuel and ICE displacement/unlimit brakes, electrify whatever the heck you want.

Bsowles
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Re: [ 2020 ] Scuderia Ferrari - Ferrari

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Question from a relative newbie to F1. Was Arrivabene involved in the so-called engine cheating scandal? Ferrari seemed to be a lot more efficient when Arrivabene was in charge. Any chance he ever comes back?

Lucky
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Re: [ 2020 ] Scuderia Ferrari - Ferrari

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