[ 2020 ] Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

This forum contains threads to discuss teams themselves. Anything not technical about the cars, including restructuring, performances etc belongs here.
User avatar
diffuser
193
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2012 12:55 pm
Location: Montreal

Re: [ 2020 ] Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

Post

Mclarensenna wrote:
Sat Nov 21, 2020 3:05 pm
It is amazing you go to the trouble and post over 20 facts and detailed reply and f1 posters here come along and downvote me and pastes this complete nonsense to my earlier detailed response

"Overall dismissed loads of context and factss"

At least have the respect to reply instead of just negative bashing posts with the most nonsensical non factual , no context neg. The irony is incredible i must say whoever wrote this as you negged me with zero facts or context yourself. I actually never dismissed any facts or context so i got no idea why they would neg my post with this reason. The irony is off the chart with this response

Why do some have the power to not reply or contribute, but neg posts, make up a ridiculous ironic nonsense reasons why they negged it, then completely hide anonymously behind their lies?
Shouldnt you at least respond to the post before negging it or clarifying with the post you not in agreement with, or actually neg it for a valid reason?

On top a 2 year poster like me is unable to neg posts. But other posters not sure the criteria (been members longer or made alot more posts) can neg your posts only.
How is that fair this 1 way annonymous negging ?
I agree, the McLaren forum isn't that bad. There are others, especially fans of a specific PU, just don't want to hear the truth or conflicting points of view. They preffer they're own uninterrupted reality.

User avatar
Jackles-UK
34
Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2012 5:02 am

Re: [ 2020 ] Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

Post

Newey has said on numerous occasions that he thinks the idea of ‘silver bullet’ innovations is pretty much finished as the rules have become so strictly worded there is no scope for anything particularly revolutionary. Even in a brand new rule set, every previous idea (double diffuser, F-duct, active suspension, flexi wings etc. etc. etc.) will be outlawed immediately so there’s so little grey areas to exploit.

The fastest car on the grid for the last 5-6 years has done so without a single major design controversy (DAS being the only possible exception but that doesn’t really affect performance in the same way), they’ve done so by maximising every marginal gain across the entire car to add up to a place where even if a midfield team were suddenly to find half a second in time they’d still be nowhere near them on most circuits.

User avatar
diffuser
193
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2012 12:55 pm
Location: Montreal

Re: [ 2020 ] Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

Post

Jackles-UK wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 3:39 pm
Newey has said on numerous occasions that he thinks the idea of ‘silver bullet’ innovations is pretty much finished as the rules have become so strictly worded there is no scope for anything particularly revolutionary. Even in a brand new rule set, every previous idea (double diffuser, F-duct, active suspension, flexi wings etc. etc. etc.) will be outlawed immediately so there’s so little grey areas to exploit.

The fastest car on the grid for the last 5-6 years has done so without a single major design controversy (DAS being the only possible exception but that doesn’t really affect performance in the same way), they’ve done so by maximising every marginal gain across the entire car to add up to a place where even if a midfield team were suddenly to find half a second in time they’d still be nowhere near them on most circuits.

I've never new what to make of those arguments from Newey.

User avatar
Darth-Piekus
20
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2018 2:27 pm
Location: Greece

Re: [ 2020 ] Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

Post

Mclaren is not 2 seconds slower than Mercedes or Red Bull. That might have been true 2 years before but not anymore. At the moment depending on GP the decifit goes from 0.4 to 1 second and that is the maximum. All they need to do is keep making strides.

User avatar
Big Tea
134
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2017 7:57 pm

Re: [ 2020 ] Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

Post

Darth-Piekus wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 5:51 pm
Mclaren is not 2 seconds slower than Mercedes or Red Bull. That might have been true 2 years before but not anymore. At the moment depending on GP the decifit goes from 0.4 to 1 second and that is the maximum. All they need to do is keep making strides.
I think what you say there is the point. Don't look for half a second with a gizmo, find a tenth in 5 areas.
Everyone working on a gizmo is not finding half that tenth
We are standing on the shoulders of Giants. So watch your feet.

User avatar
_cerber1
152
Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2019 8:50 pm

Re: [ 2020 ] Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

Post


User avatar
Jackles-UK
34
Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2012 5:02 am

Re: McLaren MCL35

Post

Does anybody know whether or not McLaren will try to run the Mercedes engine in the young driver test after the season end? It would obviously be a big help for them to have some running with it before they conclude the MCL36 design but I guess it’s whether they can get it into the existing chassis. I assume there wouldn’t be any legal issues with Renault as the season will have ended by then and any contracts will have likely expired?

User avatar
_cerber1
152
Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2019 8:50 pm

Re: McLaren MCL35

Post

I think this is not real. They would have had to prepare a second chassis for this, which could have cost a fortune.

Chassis 2021 will be named MCL35B

the EDGE
the EDGE
77
Joined: Mon Feb 13, 2012 5:31 pm
Location: Luton ENGLAND

Re: McLaren MCL35

Post

Jackles-UK wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 8:18 pm
Does anybody know whether or not McLaren will try to run the Mercedes engine in the young driver test after the season end? It would obviously be a big help for them to have some running with it before they conclude the MCL36 design but I guess it’s whether they can get it into the existing chassis. I assume there wouldn’t be any legal issues with Renault as the season will have ended by then and any contracts will have likely expired?
McLaren are not taking part in the test

User avatar
djos
144
Joined: Fri May 19, 2006 5:09 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: [ 2020 ] Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

Post

Silver bullets just simply don’t exist anymore. Cars are fast because of lots and lots of small details working well together.
The impossible often has a kind of integrity which the merely improbable lacks.

Mclarensenna
Mclarensenna
16
Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2018 1:49 am

Re: [ 2020 ] Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

Post

Darth-Piekus wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 5:51 pm
Mclaren is not 2 seconds slower than Mercedes or Red Bull. That might have been true 2 years before but not anymore. At the moment depending on GP the decifit goes from 0.4 to 1 second and that is the maximum. All they need to do is keep making strides.
Mclaren is generally 2 seconds off the "RACE PACE" of Mercedes. Qualifying no it is closer.

I can give many examples but there are many things to consider. 1 of the main things is that Ham is generally in the lead cruising the car home trying to save the engine. While the midfield is generally always pushing to the limit in the case of Mclaren and Renault which both seem quite similar in pace. But yes sometimes they are stuck behind cars also. But lets look at the lap times of some races below

http://en.mclarenf-1.com/index.php?page ... o%20Norris
Ham is consistantly 2 seconds a lap quicker the entire race. Hes fastest lap is 2.3 seconds quicker

http://en.mclarenf-1.com/index.php?page ... o%20Norris

In Portugal look after the second pit stop with Norris on slightly fresher tyres. Ham is consistently about 1 second a lap quicker cruising the car home from 1st position.


But the Merc pace is generally 1-2 seconds plus quicker in race pace most races.

http://en.mclarenf-1.com/index.php?page ... 20Hamilton

Russia is 1of the only races where Ham had to actually put the hammer down after the penalties he got to catch the leaders and look at the gap to Norris. Norris even on fresh tyres and Ham used was still a MASSIVE 2 seconds off the pace.

http://en.mclarenf-1.com/index.php?page ... o%20Norris
Italy Ham had to put the hammer down after another penalty. He stuck in traffic though with Norris in clear air but he still 1 second a lap quicker and this power track which seems to have not been 1 of Mercs best tracks.

http://en.mclarenf-1.com/index.php?page ... 0Ricciardo
lets compare Rics podium in the German grand prix to Ham. Ric was doing qualifying laps trying to keep Perez behind and Rics fastest lap was 1.6 seconds off Ham. And the Renaults were slightly quicker than the Mclarens that race.

The Mclaren to Merc gap is a good 2 seconds a lap quicker most races. But it is difficult to see it as most times Ham is just pacing himself up front. But even pacing he is still generally at least 1 second a lap quicker lapping half the field most races..
So the Gap is huge still.
I am not saying this to bash Mclaren in any way as i want them to close the gap as would love to see Ric fighting the leaders next year. The more cars up front the better. But realistically the gap is too big and unlikely. Maybe 2022 with the rule change will bring them closer

User avatar
diffuser
193
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2012 12:55 pm
Location: Montreal

Re: [ 2020 ] Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

Post

I have no idea about 2022. I can understand there is an oppotunity to get it wrong, for others to get it right and even an oppotunity to make a big jump. I realise that statement is in direct contradiction with Newey... So I really don't want to own it. That being said I don't know if the statement from Newey was with 2022 in mind. The regulation change is HUGE.

chrisgr
chrisgr
3
Joined: Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:07 am

Re: McLaren MCL35

Post

_cerber1 wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 8:24 pm
I think this is not real. They would have had to prepare a second chassis for this, which could have cost a fortune.

Chassis 2021 will be named MCL35B
I had read an interview with James Key. They might want to name it MCL35M. The current car with a Mercedes engine.

User avatar
Holm86
230
Joined: Wed Feb 10, 2010 2:37 am
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark

Re: McLaren MCL35

Post

They should just name it MCL35.5

User avatar
adrianjordan
67
Joined: Sun Feb 28, 2010 10:34 am
Location: West Yorkshire, England

Re: [ 2020 ] Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

Post

Mclarensenna wrote:
Mon Nov 23, 2020 1:47 am
Darth-Piekus wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 5:51 pm
Mclaren is not 2 seconds slower than Mercedes or Red Bull. That might have been true 2 years before but not anymore. At the moment depending on GP the decifit goes from 0.4 to 1 second and that is the maximum. All they need to do is keep making strides.
Mclaren is generally 2 seconds off the "RACE PACE" of Mercedes. Qualifying no it is closer.

I can give many examples but there are many things to consider. 1 of the main things is that Ham is generally in the lead cruising the car home trying to save the engine. While the midfield is generally always pushing to the limit in the case of Mclaren and Renault which both seem quite similar in pace. But yes sometimes they are stuck behind cars also. But lets look at the lap times of some races below

http://en.mclarenf-1.com/index.php?page ... o%20Norris
Ham is consistantly 2 seconds a lap quicker the entire race. Hes fastest lap is 2.3 seconds quicker

http://en.mclarenf-1.com/index.php?page ... o%20Norris

In Portugal look after the second pit stop with Norris on slightly fresher tyres. Ham is consistently about 1 second a lap quicker cruising the car home from 1st position.


But the Merc pace is generally 1-2 seconds plus quicker in race pace most races.

http://en.mclarenf-1.com/index.php?page ... 20Hamilton

Russia is 1of the only races where Ham had to actually put the hammer down after the penalties he got to catch the leaders and look at the gap to Norris. Norris even on fresh tyres and Ham used was still a MASSIVE 2 seconds off the pace.

http://en.mclarenf-1.com/index.php?page ... o%20Norris
Italy Ham had to put the hammer down after another penalty. He stuck in traffic though with Norris in clear air but he still 1 second a lap quicker and this power track which seems to have not been 1 of Mercs best tracks.

http://en.mclarenf-1.com/index.php?page ... 0Ricciardo
lets compare Rics podium in the German grand prix to Ham. Ric was doing qualifying laps trying to keep Perez behind and Rics fastest lap was 1.6 seconds off Ham. And the Renaults were slightly quicker than the Mclarens that race.

The Mclaren to Merc gap is a good 2 seconds a lap quicker most races. But it is difficult to see it as most times Ham is just pacing himself up front. But even pacing he is still generally at least 1 second a lap quicker lapping half the field most races..
So the Gap is huge still.
I am not saying this to bash Mclaren in any way as i want them to close the gap as would love to see Ric fighting the leaders next year. The more cars up front the better. But realistically the gap is too big and unlikely. Maybe 2022 with the rule change will bring them closer
Convenient that you ignore races where Mclaren set the fastest lap.
Since I've ordered an electric car, does that mean I should start watching Formula E?