2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

[LM10]

Am I the only one thinking that Red Bull fell into its own trap ?

I assume competition see here an opportunity to have a competitor "stuck" with an non evolving engine - RB to run Honda 2021 for several years

While we know the others will have brand new engine for 2022.
Then, they will have to make it reliable of course, so they will be allowed to introduce reliability upgrades

Plus, it is not a trap, Honda left. They just don’t want to be a forced Renault customer anymore.

The race are reporting a new higher bio-fuel will still be introduced for the ‘22 season and that Honda will continue to develop their engine to use the new fuel until the end of this year, so they will not fall a year behind others

What’s surprised me is that Ferrari have agreed to this freeze with no BOP. I hope that means the new ‘21 engine is a big step forward because they could be the ones left behind if other find gains in line with them this year & next

So after all it seems my feeling of Ferrari not to agree on BOP was the right one.

[the EDGE]

Plus, it is not a trap, Honda left. They just don’t want to be a forced Renault customer anymore.

The race are reporting a new higher bio-fuel will still be introduced for the ‘22 season and that Honda will continue to develop their engine to use the new fuel until the end of this year, so they will not fall a year behind others

What’s surprised me is that Ferrari have agreed to this freeze with no BOP. I hope that means the new ‘21 engine is a big step forward because they could be the ones left behind if other find gains in line with them this year & next

So after all it seems my feeling of Ferrari not to agree on BOP was the right one.

Well yes, but that doesn’t change the fact they put it on the table, only it didn’t gain support

[_cerber1]

They said that, until they got cucked by no-upgrades due to covid. You seem to conveniently forget that they almost reached mercedes by the end of the year just by tuning the hell out of the current engine.

You seem to have conveniently forgotten that Mercedes and Honda finalized their engines before the start of last season, moreover, the Japanese did not close their factory in Sakura during the pandemic, which means that they were best prepared for the season. I saw that Mercedes reduced the power of the engine at the end of the season, and even the limitation on the qualifying mode did not help Honda.

[nzjrs]

You seem to have conveniently forgotten that Mercedes and Honda finalized their engines before the start of last season,

I don't know what you mean with that sentence. If you mean finalized = homologated then sure, I guess? but that is true of every season and does not convey any information about an engine manufacturer's plans for in-season development.

The Japanese did not close their factory in Sakura during the pandemic, which means that they were best prepared for the season.

Yes, and was was mentioned by Jaisonas in the post you quote, an advantage they could not use in earnest in 2020 because of the upgrade freeze.

[Wouter]

And of course, on top of having a new engine for 2022 - while RB will stick with this year engine - the others will continue to work on power delivery, ERS and "reliability upgrade" even I assume that they will be more controled by the FIA, with all that goes with the ICE will be watched closely

As I said before in an answer to you: Honda will develop the engine during this season
and RBR and SAT will get an upgraded 2022 engine from Honda.
You can also read this on The-Race.com.

Honda has already developed a new engine for 2021 but the 2022 freeze means Red Bull will likely
task its outgoing partner with another update that can be deployed in 2022.

That will keep the engine in sync with its rivals and avoid Red Bull spending three seasons at a likely disadvantage.

[_cerber1]

You seem to have conveniently forgotten that Mercedes and Honda finalized their engines before the start of last season,

I don't know what you mean with that sentence. If you mean finalized = homologated then sure, I guess? but that is true of every season and does not convey any information about an engine manufacturer's plans for in-season development.

The Japanese did not close their factory in Sakura during the pandemic, which means that they were best prepared for the season.

Yes, and was was mentioned by Jaisonas in the post you quote, an advantage they could not use in earnest in 2020 because of the upgrade freeze.

I'm not talking about the things that could have happened if there hadn't been a pandemic, and I'm not talking about what will happen this year. I'm talking about what happened last year, about the words of Honda before the Austrian Grand Prix and after it. The past cannot be changed. My post was addressed to Wouter. because this is not at all the case, there are tons of examples since 2015.

[nzjrs]

You seem to have conveniently forgotten that Mercedes and Honda finalized their engines before the start of last season,

I don't know what you mean with that sentence. If you mean finalized = homologated then sure, I guess? but that is true of every season and does not convey any information about an engine manufacturer's plans for in-season development.

The Japanese did not close their factory in Sakura during the pandemic, which means that they were best prepared for the season.

Yes, and was was mentioned by Jaisonas in the post you quote, an advantage they could not use in earnest in 2020 because of the upgrade freeze.

I'm not talking about the things that could have happened if there hadn't been a pandemic, and I'm not talking about what will happen this year. I'm talking about what happened last year, about the words of Honda before the Austrian Grand Prix and after it. The past cannot be changed. My post was addressed to Wouter, who lied about how Honda is very careful in what he says, because this is not at all the case, there are tons of examples since 2015.

Ummm you quoted Jaisonas.... You also bought up the pandemic wrt. factory closures....

The inability to fulfil their development plan with the new PU planned for mid 2020 was a very significant issue for Honda. Perhaps they should have rushed to get it introduced at the start of the season like Merc, but ultimately because the rules were changed to prevent the midseason upgrade they were very much harmed.

I'm really not sure to which parts of the story you object to now.

[Wouter]

My post was addressed to Wouter, who lied about how Honda is very careful in what he says, because this is not at all the case, there are tons of examples since 2015.

Excuse me?! Could you explain youself?

[godlameroso]

Ok, so glad no one is bickering over me suggesting RBR could take over the Honda engine program and that there would be an engine freeze to allow it to happen. Funny how it played out exactly as I said, is it because I know stuff or I'm just a lucky guesser? The world will never know.

[Jambier]

And of course, on top of having a new engine for 2022 - while RB will stick with this year engine - the others will continue to work on power delivery, ERS and "reliability upgrade" even I assume that they will be more controled by the FIA, with all that goes with the ICE will be watched closely

As I said before in an answer to you: Honda will develop the engine during this season
and RBR and SAT will get an upgraded 2022 engine from Honda.
You can also read this on The-Race.com.

Honda has already developed a new engine for 2021 but the 2022 freeze means Red Bull will likely
task its outgoing partner with another update that can be deployed in 2022.

That will keep the engine in sync with its rivals and avoid Red Bull spending three seasons at a likely disadvantage.

Wow
Very serious and supportive from Honda to do that.

But... then why stop the program

If they will evolve the engine and provide a new one before the freeze, staying until end of 2024 would basically cost nothing

Honda ´s decision are always very strange.

By the way, what is RB plan for 2025?

[ispano6]

My post was addressed to Wouter, who lied about how Honda is very careful in what he says, because this is not at all the case, there are tons of examples since 2015.

Excuse me?! Could you explain youself?

I wouldn't waste your time with this one. In any case, Jaisonas is correct, Honda had more upgrades to bring which they weren't allowed to due to Covid spreading quickly through the European countries more than Japan. And Mercedes has admitted themselves that their car and engine was not ready in Australia, and that the first race being in Austria months later helped them with extra time. The engine mode ban actually helped Honda address one of their weakest areas - software and ERS management. This year there is an opportunity to bring an in-season update to some components, and Honda can continue to develop right up to the end of 2021 for Red Bull to use in 2022.

[Wouter]

My post was addressed to Wouter, who lied about how Honda is very careful in what he says, because this is not at all the case, there are tons of examples since 2015.

.
Excuse me?! Could you explain youself?

.
I wouldn't waste your time with this one. In any case, Jaisonas is correct, Honda had more upgrades to bring which they weren't allowed to due to Covid spreading quickly through the European countries more than Japan. And Mercedes has admitted themselves that their car and engine was not ready in Australia, and that the first race being in Austria months later helped them with extra time. The engine mode ban actually helped Honda address one of their weakest areas - software and ERS management. This year there is an opportunity to bring an in-season update to some components, and Honda can continue to develop right up to the end of 2021 for Red Bull to use in 2022.

Thank you for your answer @Ispano6.

[adrianjordan]

Ok, so glad no one is bickering over me suggesting RBR could take over the Honda engine program and that there would be an engine freeze to allow it to happen. Funny how it played out exactly as I said, is it because I know stuff or I'm just a lucky guesser? The world will never know.

And oh so modest lol.

Yeah, you got that one spot on!!

[JordanMugen]

But... then why stop the program

Because the board and the racing program are different people.

[_cerber1]

Excuse me?! Could you explain youself?

You assert

This is very good news for SAT and RBR! Honda would never have proposed an engine freeze if they weren't 100% convinced that their 2022 engine can beat Mercedes. Honda is always very careful, so assume that this is okay.

2015, Arai was confident that by the end of the season, Honda would allow McLaren to fight Mercedes./ The engine power gap was enormous.

2017, Hasegawa was confident that with the new engine, they completely closed the gap with Mercedes./ During the season, they were unable to close the gap.

2020, in Honda believed that they completely eliminated the gap with Mercedes and will be able to fight for the title./ At the Hungarian Grand Prix, Tanabe admitted that the gap with Mercedes is still significant.

As you can see, Honda's caution is a myth, they made statements more than once and were sure of something, but they did not find further confirmation of this.