2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

[SiLo]

Pretty optimistic outlook for Merc, as outlined by Scarbs:

https://youtu.be/2Rcj2x5tpu8

I think the biggest step they will take, will be being able to switch on the softer compounds without sacrificing the degradation advantage they have right now.

100% agreed. In terms of overall team performance, Bottas needs to get comfortable with the car. As Scarbs said, Hamilton is able to extract the performance out of it despite it being a bit on a knife's edge like the '18 car.

Also saw where Horner said, via The Race, that he expects Portimao to play to Merc's strengths. I agree with his assessment, but it still should be pretty close in quali.

is this because of their degradation advantage? Or is it some other car trait that Horner thinks will benefit them this weekend?

[SiLo]

Very interesting article about how Mercedes were doing their best to hide their pace advantage back in 2014. Some excellent quotes in there.

https://www.racefans.net/2021/04/28/fea ... idle-mode/

[littlebigcat]

Completely lifted the quotes from the Beyond the Grid podcast without credit. The podcast is well worth a listen.

[RZS10]

It's a lot more convenient to read such an article with the most important tidbits than listening to people talk for an hour though

[zibby43]

I think the biggest step they will take, will be being able to switch on the softer compounds without sacrificing the degradation advantage they have right now.

100% agreed. In terms of overall team performance, Bottas needs to get comfortable with the car. As Scarbs said, Hamilton is able to extract the performance out of it despite it being a bit on a knife's edge like the '18 car.

Also saw where Horner said, via The Race, that he expects Portimao to play to Merc's strengths. I agree with his assessment, but it still should be pretty close in quali.

I believe he meant 2017. I don't remember anything being wrong with 2018 car. That one took pole in melbourne with 7 tenths margin.

The diva tag never really had anything to do with raw performance. It was about consistent extraction of that performance via setup/tire usage.

The 2017 car was the worst diva, but the 2018 car, which was an optimized evolution of the W08, still had knife’s edge handling characteristics.

This was particularly in the early half of the season in 2018. In China that year, where Mercedes was comfortably second-best to Ferrari in qualifying, Wolff called the 2018 W09 a "capricious woman.”

So, maybe a slight upgrade from diva to capricious woman? But I was definitely referring to the 2018 car.

[dans79]

100% agreed. In terms of overall team performance, Bottas needs to get comfortable with the car. As Scarbs said, Hamilton is able to extract the performance out of it despite it being a bit on a knife's edge like the '18 car.

Also saw where Horner said, via The Race, that he expects Portimao to play to Merc's strengths. I agree with his assessment, but it still should be pretty close in quali.

I believe he meant 2017. I don't remember anything being wrong with 2018 car. That one took pole in melbourne with 7 tenths margin.

The diva tag never really had anything to do with raw performance. It was about consistent extraction of that performance via setup/tire usage.

The 2017 car was the worst diva, but the 2018 car, which was an optimized evolution of the W08, still had knife’s edge handling characteristics.

This was particularly in the early half of the season in 2018. In China that year, where Mercedes was comfortably second-best to Ferrari in qualifying, Wolff called the 2018 W09 a "capricious woman.”

So, maybe a slight upgrade from diva to capricious woman? But I was definitely referring to the 2018 car.

Yep those 2 cars are what made them focus so much on the tires and degradation. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that they where the catalyst for DAS.

[zibby43]

I think the biggest step they will take, will be being able to switch on the softer compounds without sacrificing the degradation advantage they have right now.

100% agreed. In terms of overall team performance, Bottas needs to get comfortable with the car. As Scarbs said, Hamilton is able to extract the performance out of it despite it being a bit on a knife's edge like the '18 car.

Also saw where Horner said, via The Race, that he expects Portimao to play to Merc's strengths. I agree with his assessment, but it still should be pretty close in quali.

is this because of their degradation advantage? Or is it some other car trait that Horner thinks will benefit them this weekend?

I can’t speak for Horner, and I too wish he would’ve elaborated a bit more, but I believe it will be due to a combination of layout and tarmac characteristics.

You really have to push hard to keep the tires working here, even over the length of a stint, which gives Merc a nice margin to play with in terms of set-up aggressiveness, as the car seems to be inherently good on deg.

[nzjrs]

Very interesting article about how Mercedes were doing their best to hide their pace advantage back in 2014. Some excellent quotes in there.

https://www.racefans.net/2021/04/28/fea ... idle-mode/

Finally we have black and white evidence of the culture of sandbagging inside Mercedes. Worth keeping in mind when hearing Toto speak.

[zibby43]

I believe he meant 2017. I don't remember anything being wrong with 2018 car. That one took pole in melbourne with 7 tenths margin.

The diva tag never really had anything to do with raw performance. It was about consistent extraction of that performance via setup/tire usage.

The 2017 car was the worst diva, but the 2018 car, which was an optimized evolution of the W08, still had knife’s edge handling characteristics.

This was particularly in the early half of the season in 2018. In China that year, where Mercedes was comfortably second-best to Ferrari in qualifying, Wolff called the 2018 W09 a "capricious woman.”

So, maybe a slight upgrade from diva to capricious woman? But I was definitely referring to the 2018 car.

Yep those 2 cars are what made them focus so much on the tires and degradation. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that they where the catalyst for DAS.

Allison really did an amazing job in pushing the envelope in the right direction on all things suspension-related: kinematics, design layout, etc.

[F1Krof]

Very interesting article about how Mercedes were doing their best to hide their pace advantage back in 2014. Some excellent quotes in there.

https://www.racefans.net/2021/04/28/fea ... idle-mode/

Finally we have black and white evidence of the culture of sandbagging inside Mercedes. Worth keeping in mind when hearing Toto speak.

In hindsight, I think they should have done the same in 2020. If they played this game a not qualify 8 tenths ahead of your nearest competitor, they wouldn't have introduced this silly rule to ban engine maps.

[Just_a_fan]

Very interesting article about how Mercedes were doing their best to hide their pace advantage back in 2014. Some excellent quotes in there.

https://www.racefans.net/2021/04/28/fea ... idle-mode/

Finally we have black and white evidence of the culture of sandbagging inside Mercedes. Worth keeping in mind when hearing Toto speak.

They have sandbagged in the past. Doesn't mean they are sandbagging today. Worth remembering that past performance is no guarantee of present or future performance.

[nzjrs]

Very interesting article about how Mercedes were doing their best to hide their pace advantage back in 2014. Some excellent quotes in there.

https://www.racefans.net/2021/04/28/fea ... idle-mode/

Finally we have black and white evidence of the culture of sandbagging inside Mercedes. Worth keeping in mind when hearing Toto speak.

They have sandbagged in the past. Doesn't mean they are sandbagging today. Worth remembering that past performance is no guarantee of present or future performance.

Oh totally agree, but the explicit admission is a first from a top team. Previously we only had speculation from Gary Anderson or Eddie Jordan or Matthew Carter about "what they would/could have done" when they were in charge.

[Just_a_fan]

Finally we have black and white evidence of the culture of sandbagging inside Mercedes. Worth keeping in mind when hearing Toto speak.

They have sandbagged in the past. Doesn't mean they are sandbagging today. Worth remembering that past performance is no guarantee of present or future performance.

Oh totally agree, but the explicit admission is a first from a top team. Previously we only had speculation from Gary Anderson or Eddie Jordan or Matthew Carter about "what they would/could have done" when they were in charge.

The one issue that seems to be ignored here is that Mercedes felt they had to sandbag. Why? Because if they were too good, the FIA/FOM would have changed the rules to prevent them being too good. That's the stand out for me. That's a condemnation of everything bad about F1 from recent times. The admission that the game is rigged to fake a competition between teams.

[nzjrs]

They have sandbagged in the past. Doesn't mean they are sandbagging today. Worth remembering that past performance is no guarantee of present or future performance.

Oh totally agree, but the explicit admission is a first from a top team. Previously we only had speculation from Gary Anderson or Eddie Jordan or Matthew Carter about "what they would/could have done" when they were in charge.

The one issue that seems to be ignored here is that Mercedes felt they had to sandbag. Why? Because if they were too good, the FIA/FOM would have changed the rules to prevent them being too good. That's the stand out for me. That's a condemnation of everything bad about F1 from recent times. The admission that the game is rigged to fake a competition between teams.

Thats a good point too. Unfortunately it might recharge PZ's batteries!

[e30ernest]

They have sandbagged in the past. Doesn't mean they are sandbagging today. Worth remembering that past performance is no guarantee of present or future performance.

Oh totally agree, but the explicit admission is a first from a top team. Previously we only had speculation from Gary Anderson or Eddie Jordan or Matthew Carter about "what they would/could have done" when they were in charge.

The one issue that seems to be ignored here is that Mercedes felt they had to sandbag. Why? Because if they were too good, the FIA/FOM would have changed the rules to prevent them being too good. That's the stand out for me. That's a condemnation of everything bad about F1 from recent times. The admission that the game is rigged to fake a competition between teams.

On Andy Cowell's interview, I remember him mentioning the same reliability concerns that Paddy mentions here. Only difference though is that Andy gave that as the primary reason for going for more conservative modes, while Paddy is implying they did it to hide performance.

I can't remember if it was Andy or someone else at Merc that mentioned that they used the engine advantage to keep their opponents focused on their engines while hiding the aero advantage of their car. Paddy seems to to corroborate that (admitting the Merc had the best chassis as well).

Sandbagging seems to be prevalent in racing anyway. Hiding that pace advantage for as long as you can will help you stay ahead of the curve. Looks like in F1 it does both in terms of performance, and in staying ahead of the rules.