Should the 2022 cars be moved to 2023?

[RZS10]

You assume much. What privilege are you harnessing to do that?

It's the privilege of "it's just that blatantly obvious" tbqhwy.

It's overall a terrible idea and hopefully no one at the FIA is silly enough to even consider something like that and it's extremely likely that not a single team would agree to it, not even those who profited from the interim changes.

[TimW]

I guess I might just have to be happy in the fact that we get 2021 for what may be the greatest season of all time.

And people don't tune into F1 for the "construction sport", they tune in for the THRILL.

FWIW I watch it for the construction sport. I'd be happy with a complete rule rewrite every 3 years. In the context of a cost control formula it shouldn't matter how frequently they flip the script.

I'm sure I'm abnormal in this belief.

But I do appreciate that while it is close it is a better product and best for the health of F1.

On F1technical I'd expect more people to watch for the engineering aspects, and thus welcome rule changes.

New rules every year, drastic changes, rulebook publicised in October. That would bring back a lot of visible creativity and new ideas. With the current steady rule set there is mostly fine tuning and optimization, even for engineers it is difficult to spur the developments.

[Just_a_fan]

New rules will be dominated by 1 team, as history shows.

Which is quite possibly going to be not-Mercedes. Which means not-Hamilton will get lots of wins. Surely that what you're hoping for?

[Zynerji]

You assume much. What privilege are you harnessing to do that?

It's the privilege of "it's just that blatantly obvious" tbqhwy.

It's overall a terrible idea and hopefully no one at the FIA is silly enough to even consider something like that and it's extremely likely that not a single team would agree to it, not even those who profited from the interim changes.

The privilege of privilege...

[Zynerji]

New rules will be dominated by 1 team, as history shows.

Which is quite possibly going to be not-Mercedes. Which means not-Hamilton will get lots of wins. Surely that what you're hoping for?

Nah.

I would rather 8 different winners a season instead of 2.5.

[RZS10]

You assume much. What privilege are you harnessing to do that?

It's the privilege of "it's just that blatantly obvious" tbqhwy.

It's overall a terrible idea and hopefully no one at the FIA is silly enough to even consider something like that and it's extremely likely that not a single team would agree to it, not even those who profited from the interim changes.

The privilege of privilege...

haha ... kinda ... yes

[Just_a_fan]

I guess I might just have to be happy in the fact that we get 2021 for what may be the greatest season of all time.

And people don't tune into F1 for the "construction sport", they tune in for the THRILL.

FWIW I watch it for the construction sport. I'd be happy with a complete rule rewrite every 3 years. In the context of a cost control formula it shouldn't matter how frequently they flip the script.

I'm sure I'm abnormal in this belief.

But I do appreciate that while it is close it is a better product and best for the health of F1.

On F1technical I'd expect more people to watch for the engineering aspects, and thus welcome rule changes.

New rules every year, drastic changes, rulebook publicised in October. That would bring back a lot of visible creativity and new ideas. With the current steady rule set there is mostly fine tuning and optimization, even for engineers it is difficult to spur the developments.

If everyone had exactly the same resources then you would have a point. But the reality is that even with the cost cap, the teams don't have the same resources.

[JPower]

Absolutely not.

Besides, every team has probably already spent tens of millions and thousands of hours of development on the new cars. They are going to see it through regardless.

Sell the designs to IndyCar.

Oh yeah, very realistic.

[Juzh]

One close season doesn't mean next one will be similar. See 2010 and 2012 which both went down to the wire and both had a year of utter dominance the next time round. Anytime I see arguments like "oh look the field has converged why are we changing rules now" I always remember last year of V8s and red bulls 9 consecutive wins. All that in a year that had most stable regs for some time, not to mention a V8 engine that had much greater parity than anything from 2014 onwards.

[Zynerji]

One close season doesn't mean next one will be similar. See 2010 and 2012 which both went down to the wire and both had a year of utter dominance the next time round. Anytime I see arguments like "oh look the field has converged why are we changing rules now" I always remember last year of V8s and red bulls 9 consecutive wins. All that in a year that had most stable regs for some time, not to mention a V8 engine that had much greater parity than anything from 2014 onwards.

That string of 9 consecutive for RBR could be interpreted as the reason Merc stole the march for 2014. RBR over committed to win the 4th straight title and compromised the 5th.

And stable rules converge the field due to the fact that there is only 1 "Perfect" solution, by definition, and it gets harder to find big gains, so those that are behind can catch up.

Folks here just want their favorite driver to have the luxury of having an OP car, and All-Time records.

I'd rather see a race where Williams, Merc, RBR, AR, and AT, etc all have equal odds to put it on pole for qualifying. Having 10 different winners in the first 10 races would also suit me just fine.

[Zynerji]

Absolutely not.

Besides, every team has probably already spent tens of millions and thousands of hours of development on the new cars. They are going to see it through regardless.

Sell the designs to IndyCar.

Oh yeah, very realistic.

You don't think that IndyCar puts out car design tenders where they buy new cars?

[JPower]

Sell the designs to IndyCar.

Oh yeah, very realistic.

You don't think that IndyCar puts out car design tenders where they buy new cars?

What about the 2022 cars would Indy want for their series? Is Indy moving to a new design anytime soon?

[Zynerji]

Oh yeah, very realistic.

You don't think that IndyCar puts out car design tenders where they buy new cars?

What about the 2022 cars would Indy want for their series? Is Indy moving to a new design anytime soon?

I don't know, but you seem to. Have they been offered F1 level machinery in the last 30 years? Maybe they would jump at the chance to upgrade?

[Jolle]

You don't think that IndyCar puts out car design tenders where they buy new cars?

What about the 2022 cars would Indy want for their series? Is Indy moving to a new design anytime soon?

I don't know, but you seem to. Have they been offered F1 level machinery in the last 30 years? Maybe they would jump at the chance to upgrade?

Well... Dalara is the indycar and HAAS constructor... al was the DW chassis designed when they were still working for HRT. Maybe RedBull Technology will join a bid?

[JordanMugen]

Sell the designs to IndyCar.

The build quality, complexity and tolerances of F1 designs is too high for Indycar budgets. Indycars are rather crude (as are GTE and most non-F1 racing cars TBH!).

The build quality of an Indycar is more like an F1 car from 20 to 30 years ago. Heck, even an F1 car from 25 years is extremely rudimentary in terms of fit and finish compared to a modern F1 car.

Force India:


Indycar:


The F1 car is incredibly intricate, densely-packed and elaborate to build and maintain compared to the Indycar, and hence probably not cost-effective enough for Indycar series. The Indycar is more of a simple, straight-forward cost-effective racing car.

For reference here's an F1 car from 25 years ago (Ferrari 412 T1) or 33 years ago (McLaren MP4/4) which are more akin the complexity level of the modern day 2021 Indycar.

Have they been offered F1 level machinery in the last 30 years? Maybe they would jump at the chance to upgrade?

Can they afford it?

Things like simple rectangular radiators and circular oil tanks housed in oversized sidepods must surely save money compared to items that are sculpted and honed to the last mm? Likewise, coil springs cheaper than a miniaturised torsion bar system? Saving money by not having a heave damper, etc?

You don't seem to mention the no-expense-spared nature of the Formula One car, that may be beyond the means of an Indycar team?

Heck Williams still have the simple cast aluminium alloy gearbox housing like the X-Trac and they are a Formula One team! Where X-Trac supply the Indy box, their box was considered subpar and uncompetitive in Formula One -- were it suitable for hybrid turbo torque, the chunky shape of the X-Trac would probably cause F1 aerodynamicists to have a fit! https://www.xtrac.com/product/p1044-formula-1-gearbox/

Really, the main thing holding back the Indycar on road courses compared to Super Formula or Formula 2 (apart from the Indycar's much, much higher weight) is the low downforce levels. That's very deliberate. The organisers could put much bigger Venturi tunnels on the car if they wanted to (the Super Formula car uses a lot more ground effect, as does the F2), but they have chosen not to for their own reasons.

Indycar diffuser: https://racer.com/wp-content/uploads/si ... 562&crop=1
F2 diffuser: https://www.raceenginesuppliers.com/Por ... ight_1.jpg

As you can see, the F2 car has a much larger diffuser than the Indycar -- hence why it is faster on road courses. Obviously F1 cars are so advanced, that even with the flat floor rule and very shallow permitted diffuser angle, they still produce dramatically more downforce than F2!