2013 Malaysian GP - Sepang

[myurr]

Yea i think that if Red Bull had started showing real signs of being in trouble they would have sent Rosberg to go after them but it really seemed like Red Bull would have responded easily if ROS had started to up his pace.

He should have had that third place though but i´m sure there´s more opportunities for him in the upcoming races.
Very strong driver and with Hamilton who we know is legit it only raises his own stocks quite a lot.

He's certainly acquitting himself well. It'll be interesting to see how the second half the season goes, whether there'll continue to be the smallest of margins between them or if Hamilton (or Rosberg for that matter) is able to assert themselves as they get 100% on top of the tyres and setup of the 2013 car. I have a suspicion that Hamilton, to a degree, is still learning the car and how to best set it up to get both good pace and good longevity from the tyres. But we'll see in time if I'm right or not.

[myurr]

To me, the design of F1 rules shows it`s weaknesses more and more. Remember the Bridgestone tires which had to last for the whole race? Teams should be allowed to use as many tires of that kind as needed. Just PUSHING to the limit, no need to concern about durability. Same with refueling. What a funny thing that F1 cars need to save fuel. Average Lap times are 5-7 seconds slower than Q3 times. What a thrill.

For each set of tires teams saved at a weekend they could burn 200 kg more fuel.

F1 cars have always had to save fuel, this isn't a recent invention. If tyres weren't dictating pace then there would be another limiting component - be it engine life, fuel, gearbox, thermal buildup, or some other component.

A simple change that may improve matters would be to allow teams to select which two tyre compounds they want to bring to each race, as long as they're exactly two steps apart (maybe one step at selected tracks). That way there could be multiple strategies the teams could take with much more variety in the racing, and cars being able to bring tyres that suit their characteristics.

[myurr]

I just wathced it again. It was the other way around. Hamilton pits, next lap webber pits and next lap vettel pits. Vettel comes out behind hamilton. So hamilton undercut vettel. Had webber not been so slow before those pit stops this might not have happened at all. And thats the point vettel was trying to make on the radio.

Time to watch it again. Webber was slow at one point in the middle of the stint, at the request of his engineers, and after Vettel made that disparaging call he was asked to up his pace a couple of laps later. He did this and Vettel was unable to keep up. By the time they were into their pitstop window Vettel was a few seconds behind Webber.

[WhiteBlue]

My friend that is a rubbish argument in my view. With this circular logic you can prove anything or nothing. We should not waste our time with this. There is no development of the V8 engines and they are very unlikely to have any reliability problems in the last 17 races they are going to be used. We need to wait for next year to have a proper knife edge situation with engine development and some proper drama that would justify teams orders for engine saving. This obviously is my own humble opinion and you are free to think differently.

There's nothing circular about saying "the teams currently save their engines in every single race whenever they can, therefore saving engine life is necessary".

It seems a little silly to me to say that "the teams currently save their engines in every single race whenever they can, but because they haven't had an engine failure for a couple of years the teams are stupid and this engine saving is unnecessary. They should run at full power all the time." As you say you are entitled to your opinion on this, but equally I feel entitled to challenge that opinion.

This is one of the typical arguments that we seem to run into all the time. IMO you simply ignore the relevant facts - that there is no engine development and no factual need to save engines - and create your own thin logic to support your opinion. I suggest you simply admit that you have over looked the most important points.

[Juzh]

I just wathced it again. It was the other way around. Hamilton pits, next lap webber pits and next lap vettel pits. Vettel comes out behind hamilton. So hamilton undercut vettel. Had webber not been so slow before those pit stops this might not have happened at all. And thats the point vettel was trying to make on the radio.

Time to watch it again. Webber was slow at one point in the middle of the stint, at the request of his engineers, and after Vettel made that disparaging call he was asked to up his pace a couple of laps later. He did this and Vettel was unable to keep up. By the time they were into their pitstop window Vettel was a few seconds behind Webber.

He was 1,8s behind. Webber even got 2 drs helps from backmarkers. The damage has been done by then anyway.

[myurr]

This is one of the typical arguments that we seem to run into all the time. IMO you simply ignore the relevant facts - that there is no engine development and no factual need to save engines - and create your own thin logic to support your opinion. I suggest you simply admit that you have over looked the most important points.

If there is no factual need to save engines, then why do the teams do it? Why do you think you know better than the teams? Name one single race in the last, say, 5 years where the teams have not saved engine life by turning the engines down. Just one. You make a bold claim, state it as fact, when it's just based on your opinion with no evidence at all and contrary to actual practice carried out by the teams who do have the facts. And then turn to slander by saying I'm ignoring your evidence - what evidence have you provided other than stating that the engines haven't been developed for a while? And that's not evidence in and of itself anyway if you actually think about it.

[bhall]

The Facts according to you:

Fact 1: Webber is not German

Fact 2: Vettel is German

Fact 3: Vettel can do no wrong due to fact 2

Fact 4: Webber is always in the wrong due to fact 1

Those are not the facts according to me. You are making up this BS and everybody here can see its not by me.

Those are the facts as I see them:

Fact1: Webber gets into accidents more than any other Red Bull driver

Fact2: Webber does not take team orders although they are now legal

Fact3: Webber is 80 points behind Vettel by his own making and three points less make no substantial difference justifying the risk of another crash. He is extremely unlikely to win the 2011 championship according to the vast majority of the fans and pundits

Fact4: The second half of the season can still see a return of Ferrari, although I would hate to see it. So the team management at Red Bull have a valid reason to play it safe.

Your arguments aren't supported by facts.

That is a pointless statement. You can make any kind of excuses but the facts remain that Webber has had a bunch of accidents of which I even forgot to mention the one in Korea. Sure his fans will always find a reason why it was not his fault to run into another car from behind or not to break after loosing control of his car in the rain. For me the guy simply is a loose cannon who cannot take orders when the team issues them. According to the rules the team has the right to do so and that is the main fact here which you conveniently forget. The fact that Horner had to come on the horn himself to make the order stick is ample proof of the fact that Webber has no discipline and cannot be trusted to deal with such a situation to the benefit of the team.

As much as you deny it there is a totally different situation this year compared to last year. Webber is hopelessly behind in the championship and three extra points won't change that. A direct fight between team mates in the last two laps could have cost the team a ton of points as it did in Turkey last year. But with blinkers one cannot see that point. The fans can criticise whatever they like, but that doesn't necessarily mean it makes sense and is reasonable from a team's point of view.

EDIT: Here's the easy way out: admit your fandom and how it can occasionally skew your logic. Like so.

The one thing I keep thinking is why would Schumacher so obviously cheat? I don't question whether or not he's the kind of person who would cheat. I just think that if he's the terrible, unethical driver that everyone makes him out to be, he'd be a little more subtle in his cheating ways.

Stopping on the track to get in the way of others is too obvious. I mean, the whole racing world is loudly crying foul over this. That sort of lets me know that this was a mistake. Anyone with half a brain would have to know that such a blatant action wouldn't go unpunished.

That's my Ferrari fandom talking about Monaco 2006. Even my cringe is cringing right now.

[Nando]

I have a suspicion that Hamilton, to a degree, is still learning the car and how to best set it up to get both good pace and good longevity from the tyres. But we'll see in time if I'm right or not.

Agreed. I feel that if Rosberg is going to make an impact it has to be now.
But even though if he keeps this up it´s still a very fine job by him. Should be great for future race seats.

[HVS5b]

Red Bull = Esprit de Corpse

[Mika1]

I have a suspicion that Hamilton, to a degree, is still learning the car and how to best set it up to get both good pace and good longevity from the tyres. But we'll see in time if I'm right or not.

Agreed. I feel that if Rosberg is going to make an impact it has to be now.
But even though if he keeps this up it´s still a very fine job by him. Should be great for future race seats.

Indeed, Hamilton said he has still a lot to learn about the car.

[i70q7m7ghw]

It's a multi-map setting. It may ALSO mean hold station if that's what the team have discussed the setting is for, but it's most definitely a setting on the steering wheel which controls various systems, most probably turning off/down. It was quite clear on the radio when Vettel was attacking Mark the team where telling him to "take KERS out of overtake pattern" and "use KERS normally".

And the reason it may override the other settings on the steering wheel is because it would be ridiculous to ask the driver to change 10 different settings just to put the car in cruise mode. Certain configurations are on a quick select using the multi-map setting. For example, wet weather setup (which switches on the light as well as other things). Of course, all the other settings are there for adhoc manual changes.

I am prepared to accept it - but where is the proof? There is only speculation that the right hand toggle wheel works in conjunction with the left hand toggle wheel, to make the magic number 21, but not one source has come forward to confirm this. None. None of the press experts, none of the team press leaks, not a single reputable sole has stated multi21 is a spefic setting that the driver must select. All info appears, so far, to confirm its a code, with driver making required changes - whatever they are.

Please tell me what specific evidence you have to support this?

Right back at you, what specific evidence do you have to support that it's a code that means "car number 2 leads car number 1" ? The post race interview mentioned Webber's engine being turned down, he said it himself on the podium interview, his father said it etc. etc. The engineers were also asking on the radio for Vettel to get out of KERS overtaking pattern. Everything points towards the engineer trying to manage his driver and the performance of the car.

Now, if on top of all that there is something agreed before every race that when in the "Multi 21" setting, the drivers are not allowed to overtake each other, then fine. BUT, I do not believe that Multi 21 means exclusively do not overtake, and the fact that the cars are numbered 2 & 1 is just freak coincidence.

[fritticaldi]

Flavio Briatore said that the real boss at Red Bull is Vettel. Further evidence of that is Christian Horner (too afraid to go)did not go to the podium ceremonies after his team finished 1-2. You can't have a general manager that is also driving.

[Just_a_fan]

Indeed, Hamilton said he has still a lot to learn about the car.

One of the first things he did was ask them to simplify the steering wheel. Apparently he's had several buttons/dials removed.

[SilverArrow]

I have a suspicion that Hamilton, to a degree, is still learning the car and how to best set it up to get both good pace and good longevity from the tyres. But we'll see in time if I'm right or not.

Agreed. I feel that if Rosberg is going to make an impact it has to be now.
But even though if he keeps this up it´s still a very fine job by him. Should be great for future race seats.

Definitely, I don't think he has very long before he is settled into the number two role, and once that happens it's pretty tough to reverse. Something tells me though that Rosberg will give Hamilton as hard a time as the latter gave Alonso in 2007. Nico seems like a faster and mentally stronger Nick Heidfeld - his pace seems to adjust based on his teammates'.

[Nando]

I think the best way to describe Nico vs teammates is that he rises to the occasion.

And as someone mentioned about the wheel, Hamilton is designing the next years cars wheel so it will be interesting to see how that looks.