2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

[Thunder]

Pretty sensible Interview with EB (yeahh i know the usual suspects will disagree ^^)
https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/inte ... -2017.html

Q: Why is it so difficult to bounce back? It’s not as though McLaren don’t know how to win races…

EB: The power unit is driving the performance much more than ever before. In the past when you had a difference of 30, 40 or 50 horsepower you could compensate for that with a good chassis. But with these power units we don’t speak only about power: we speak about deployment quality, recovery quality, strategy deployment - something we didn’t know in the beginning and only discovered last year. And it is there where Mercedes is still ahead, because they are discovering things before everybody else. And that is why you have a much bigger performance differentiation than you had in the past.

Q: Power unit aside, are you happy with how McLaren have dealt with the changes?

EB: Ha, last year I was hammered after I said that we have the fourth-best chassis on the grid, because at one race we’ve done well and then at another we have been far behind, so people started to doubt what I’ve said. So I am not drawing on an expectation like this. What I can say is that I am satisfied with the job we’ve done. I am satisfied with the team that we have now.

Q: Why do Honda still have such big problems in matching the other engine manufacturers?

EB: Because they are still three years behind in time to the others: Mercedes, Renault and Ferrari started in 2010 - and all these three started with an existing organization, as all three were already doing F1 engines. In 2013 Honda decided to come back to Formula One and started from scratch: empty buildings! They had to buy everything - and find the right people. So to be fair you have manufacturers who had seven years and are still struggling - and Honda started four years after the others. These units are so complicated that you have to be really process driven and go step by step. Unfortunately there is no short cut.

[FW17]

Pretty sensible Interview with EB (yeahh i know the usual suspects will disagree ^^)
https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/inte ... -2017.html

Unfortunately there is no short cut.

Have to disagree here.

Honda and McLaren have the chance to race this engine with another team or teams to increase the amount of data gathered and working in parallel on various strategies to move forward.

They even have the option of mule testing in Japan in a large scale, and LMP1 where the FIA allows the F1 engine to be run with a different fuel ration.

[Thunder]

Afaik Hasegawa said somewhen last Year they are preparing to supply a second Team, so it seems their Infrastructure just wasn't set up for a second Team in the first 2 Years (don't know whose decision it was to solely focus on McLaren).

As for the mule Car, don't know if they did it. Yes i doubt it too. Do we have information if the other Manifactureres did it? I only know of one Ferrari Car that was speculated to me a mule, but no facts.

[kasio]

Yes, the fundamental problem at the rear was the engine.

He mean suspenion. The rear one. No traction in - I will elaborate - SLOW corners! if you understand what i mean - slow is when speed is limited by traction and not power. and that is when power is dosed with accelerator pedal. (its not software!)
There are drivers for that!

I'll state my point for the final time: a chassis cannot be at its full potential with such an underperforming engine.

You can still show half potential! Problem is that Car did not show its potential in areas which are not limited by engine so we cannot even know if in areas which are limited by engine its actually engine which is limiting! it could be as well that both factors were limiting!

Whether a chassis is designed with a fundamental problem like the McLaren did in 2013, you would never know because the Honda engine is so unrefined that it's worse than than any problem that McLaren could have in the fundamental design of the chassis.

You cannot know both of them(engine and chassis)! Also no engineer would design car to underperform in slow corners because engine will be weak!
And as i said previously there are areas which You can see in Videos! Including performance in high speed tracks, like spa and monza which did show that engine is not a lump.

It should not be underestimated how unrefined the Honda has been and also was at the first test of 2017.

Also the argument of performance on tracks with long straights vs tight tracks is flawed, it's not as simple as that and hasn't been for a long time.

Instead of telling flawed It would be better to tell that its too complicated for You... For me (And not only me) its simple and i can easlily understand limiting factors at different points of track ! Its not like those observations are based on laptime ! We indeed watch all aspects of information which are accesible and it is just enough to understand limits of performance.

[FW17]

Maybe the other 3 manufacturers have traction control that Honda has not explored.

Remember Minardi accusing Red Bull and Renault of running traction control based on rear suspension movement and ERS harvesting with the V8 engines?

[GoranF1]

https://youtu.be/JZWzWp5yPkk

Current situation.

[fellowhoodlums]

So there was filming day on Friday and second test starts tomorrow. Does anyone know how the logistics work? Barely anough time for car to get back to factory before it needs to get back to the track. What's left in Barcelona over weekend?

[FW17]

The car may not make a trip to the factory as it is not required.

[Webber2011]

https://youtu.be/JZWzWp5yPkk

Current situation.

Holy Shite

I've seen that clip used and abused for a few different reasons, but that one's just about the best !

[GoranF1]

Wonder if new spec PU and new floor will debut right from tommorow morning or will it be delayed again.

[Thunder]

Where did they say there will be a new Floor tomorrow?

[adrianjordan]

Yes, the fundamental problem at the rear was the engine.

He mean suspenion. The rear one. No traction in - I will elaborate - SLOW corners! if you understand what i mean - slow is when speed is limited by traction and not power. and that is when power is dosed with accelerator pedal. (its not software!)
There are drivers for that!

I'll state my point for the final time: a chassis cannot be at its full potential with such an underperforming engine.

You can still show half potential! Problem is that Car did not show its potential in areas which are not limited by engine so we cannot even know if in areas which are limited by engine its actually engine which is limiting! it could be as well that both factors were limiting!

Whether a chassis is designed with a fundamental problem like the McLaren did in 2013, you would never know because the Honda engine is so unrefined that it's worse than than any problem that McLaren could have in the fundamental design of the chassis.

You cannot know both of them(engine and chassis)! Also no engineer would design car to underperform in slow corners because engine will be weak!
And as i said previously there are areas which You can see in Videos! Including performance in high speed tracks, like spa and monza which did show that engine is not a lump.

It should not be underestimated how unrefined the Honda has been and also was at the first test of 2017.

Also the argument of performance on tracks with long straights vs tight tracks is flawed, it's not as simple as that and hasn't been for a long time.

Instead of telling flawed It would be better to tell that its too complicated for You... For me (And not only me) its simple and i can easlily understand limiting factors at different points of track ! Its not like those observations are based on laptime ! We indeed watch all aspects of information which are accesible and it is just enough to understand limits of performance.

But a peaky engine can make getting the power down difficult, especially in slower corners where you're relying on mechanical grip.

How is it that you seem to suggest that every expert who says that the Honda PU is a problem is wrong??

[Jef Patat]

Where did they say there will be a new Floor tomorrow?

Hope is a deceiving force

[kasio]

But a peaky engine can make getting the power down difficult, especially in slower corners where you're relying on mechanical grip.

How is it that you seem to suggest that every expert who says that the Honda PU is a problem is wrong??

Havent seen even ONE "expert" saying Honda is peaky! And i can even prove its not peaky!

I wil not search myself but i will reffer to Rossberg Onboard from Monaco. You can see there Mclaren had no problem with stepping on accelerator and neither acceleration was bad into Tunnel. (compared to Merc)
Bad was cornering speed, entry speed, appex speed.

Also You can check comparison from Baku (exit to start straight) initial acceleration is better for Mclaren!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JvDj6oIZNeo
0.6 sec they are even. then starting acceleration is McLaren advantage up till roughly 8.5 secs! then Merc gets him!

In every corner there are several aspects including entry speed,, appex speed, exit speed. Speed around the corner is mostly varying, but can be constant as well. besides there is diference also when You should step on power. sometimes its only after corner and not all of these are affected by "peeky engine"!

[BosF1]

So there was filming day on Friday and second test starts tomorrow. Does anyone know how the logistics work? Barely anough time for car to get back to factory before it needs to get back to the track. What's left in Barcelona over weekend?

"WHAT'S NEXT

The team will return to its respective bases in Woking, Milton Keynes and Sakura to analyse the data from the first test, before we return to the Circuit de Barcelona-Catalunya on Tuesday 7 March to begin the second and final week of pre-season testing."

http://www.mclaren.com/formula1/2017/pr ... est-day-4/

Doesn't say anything about the car, but I don't think the whole car goes back due to time indeed.