Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

[Muulka]

Gone

[lio007]

Gone

What?

[Brian Coat]

5 months is not long enough to be comfortable, I know that for definite. A single cylinder give you a tiny amount of information. You need all the data for the crankcases, heads, valvetrain, front gear set, mounting, cooling, heat disspation etc etc etc.

They arent re-inventing the engine but when everything is running right on the margin a small increase in cylinder pressure/vibrations/heat can have catastrophic effects.

Some of the parts (heads/Crankcases in particular) have massive lead times (for F1) they need to be turning up pretty soon.

But then again I dont really believe that Renaults 2017 unit is just a single cylinder at this stage.

That makes sense - I agree.

You have previously stated that at least one team uses a machined-from-solid block/crankcase, based on your personal experience (I am not sure if this scenario applies to Renault).

In a machined-block/crankcase scenario, I'm guessing the (cast) head would be the pacing item.
With 3D printed cores that could be very fast, too.

But not so fast that they don't need a multi on the bed by now!

[hardingfv32]

Made from billet cylinder block/case:

How is cylinder cooling accomplished?

Brian

[wuzak]

Made from billet cylinder block/case:

How is cylinder cooling accomplished?

Brian

Wet liners.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-zv72DKPc8P8/U ... linder.GIF

http://www.renault4.co.uk/gordini-engin ... -large.jpg

[Brian Coat]

Wuzak, is that known fact or a working theory?

Personally, I have not seen an "eye witness account" to confirm the use of wet liners.

To confirm that a block/crankcase is machined all over requires seeing/knowing the detailed arrangement inside the engine but that does not mean you have to share what you saw - and there may be good reasons not to.

[Facts Only]

5 months is not long enough to be comfortable, I know that for definite. A single cylinder give you a tiny amount of information. You need all the data for the crankcases, heads, valvetrain, front gear set, mounting, cooling, heat disspation etc etc etc.

They arent re-inventing the engine but when everything is running right on the margin a small increase in cylinder pressure/vibrations/heat can have catastrophic effects.

Some of the parts (heads/Crankcases in particular) have massive lead times (for F1) they need to be turning up pretty soon.

But then again I dont really believe that Renaults 2017 unit is just a single cylinder at this stage.

That makes sense - I agree.

You have previously stated that at least one team uses a machined-from-solid block/crankcase, based on your personal experience (I am not sure if this scenario applies to Renault).

In a machined-block/crankcase scenario, I'm guessing the (cast) head would be the pacing item.
With 3D printed cores that could be very fast, too.

But not so fast that they don't need a multi on the bed by now!

I'm not entirely sure what Renault are doing for 2017, I dont have a huge working knowledge their engines.

The heads will be the longest lead items (usually cast) but even a machined from solid crankcase will take a long long time in F1 terms.

The machined from solid crankcases I saw didnt use wet liners either, it was nothing complicated or advanced. Just metal and fasteners. Thats not to say that somebody isnt using wet liners, I just report on what I know from one place and can see from others.

I bet they have got a full V6 on the dyno now, probably a hybrid unit with some existing parts, I would expect to see a full 2017 unit running well before the end of the year and I would expect the design to be pretty much locked down.

[PlatinumZealot]

The engines don't require as much cooling as their N/A counterparts.

The BMW straight six is a good example. After BMW mastered their direct injection in the turbo N55, they found that they could reduce the coolant channels even more in the B58 engine.

Another good example is recent generation of Toyota engines. Toyota inserts baffles into the cooling jackets to increase fluid flow turbulence and cooling effect. Possibly The Jackets are machined and the baffles inserted.

[wuzak]

Wuzak, is that known fact or a working theory?

Personally, I have not seen an "eye witness account" to confirm the use of wet liners.

To confirm that a block/crankcase is machined all over requires seeing/knowing the detailed arrangement inside the engine but that does not mean you have to share what you saw - and there may be good reasons not to.

I was just responding to how a machined from billet block could have cooling achieved. It seemed like the obvious answer to me.

[Brian Coat]

The mid-mounted arrangements you gave as examples may well struggle with structural stiffness at such high peak cylinder pressures.

However *top* mounted wet liners have been used on some common rail diesels (high pcp) so the idea of using a wet liner is not implausible.

Edit: Over on the Merc PU thread, I posted another plausible theory for how you could achieve a solid-machined crankcase. Head with integral bore.

[Sevach]

http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/revea ... 17-847738/

Let's see what this new concept brings to the table.

[ReoPTy]

as i said before , a suposed more efficient split Turbo than mercedes and some tricks to lower CoG ICE !

since august it's full throttle on dynometers, and not 1 cylinder bed, who was tested since april

the most promising think will be about pre chamber inovative plugs, and egine turbo arrangment

[Vladimir]

Renault is on way to shine again =D> This year, thay showed great strength and closed the gap with superb reliability.

[PlatinumZealot]

Yes. They probably had the best reliability this year.

[FW17]

Hard to believe the lead times of the engines quoted above when engine manufacturers made hundreds (no less than 200) of engines for a season during the 2000s.