Is Hamilton desperate or what?

[Agenda_Is_Incorrect]

No one noticed by the onboard cameras that Lewis got caught by a blind spot?

Webber was still in position to defend and had the inside line advantage in overtaking but he was at a position that Hamilton maybe was sure he had passed him while he hasn't. He closed the door to make the overtaking complete but got it wrong as Webber was still coming. Seems like a racing incident and by the way the stewards dealt with it also seems like that was the conclusion they got.

People are playing the colour thing too soon and sometimes in a way that generalize things to a point where they are the ones being racist, even if by good intentions towards Hamilton and even if they don't belong to the same race as him.

Ringo, beside what I just said have in mind Webber was indeed attacking at that moment but the overtake was not complete as well by any means. Hamilton was unlucky to get a blind spot and close the door as if he had completed the move. Actually if there wasn't a crash it would have been a big possibility that Webber was going to keep an attacking position for the next couple of curves as a result of being in physical position to do so. As for Kubica, he simply behaved better even if also being aggressive. But that's because he had the opportunity to see that he had someone by his side.

Things were not clear as day by any means, even the stewards took a lot of time to decide. And wile Hamilton is very good he is not on par with Serena Williams or Tiger Woods. His combination of lack of luck and over aggression at many times made his career results much worse than that of those athletes. He has a lot of technique and that is no doubt, as those other two, but it's also part of him to go for over powering many times while in pressure. Just like Vettel if that makes you more comfortable about skin issues. And so please don't say things like "people are going to flip their wings", as we all know that there are bad journalists and racists out there but when you start saying things in the name of an entire profession or in the name of entire other races you are doing even worse.

Regarding xenophobia, Hamilton is British and F1 is a sport where people all and teams over the world succeed. If you take it as a class issue, remember that Hamilton was not a poor kid at all. Putting things as a matter of either it's racism or it's xenophobia is also not nice at all.

And lets all remember that the stewards made the decision. If we are going to investigate any kind of suspicion then we should be looking at them and for the love of God we shouldn't make any generalizations if we do so. Next thing is people talking about racism against German drivers being penalizes whereas others don't. People are going to have to be born on their bare meat the way those things are being treated, as it seems that there is always guilt or self guilt involved in everything. And we will have to date multi-colour, multi-ethnic, multi-religion people to prove we are ok

[ringo]

I don't limit my racing experience to just F1.. In most categories of racing, a driver has not cleared another driver unless 100% of his car is in front. In here, that is not the case..The line you draw still shows Webber's front wing next to Lewis's car which means that if Lewis just swings across he will touch Webber.. This is why the entire car has to be cleared in order for a driver to make a sudden move without getting into an accident.
BTW.. Lewis already kind of admitted it was his mistake for not seeing where Webber was and assuming that the corner was 100% his.

Rubish, no driver can see that, but the one following. Stop making things up to justify a silly claim. No driver can know exactly where a following car is.

hamilton is ahead. Webber is attacking. Hypocrisy at it's best.
I'll end this arguement now. I just hope to see the the same thing with any other driver but Lewis, then come back to this arguement.

[BMW_F1]

if drivers can't be bothered to pay attention to who is racing them they shouldn't be racing at all and perhaps they should try rally instead where they have the entire racing track to themselves.

[ringo]

No one noticed by the onboard cameras that Lewis got caught by a blind spot?

Webber was still in position to defend and had the inside line advantage in overtaking but he was at a position that Hamilton maybe was sure he had passed him while he hasn't. He closed the door to make the overtaking complete but got it wrong as Webber was still coming. Seems like a racing incident and by the way the stewards dealt with it also seems like that was the conclusion they got.

Look man, Webber cannot defend anything, he has no position to defend!
defend what?
You can't defend a piece of road ahead of you, that's called threatening to shunt.
An inside line advantage is what Sutil had since he was ahead.

There is no inside line advantage at all, he braked late and the car overshot.
He would have hit Hamilton even if given more room.
The issue would not have been investigated if Webber was not at fault.
He didn't deserve a penalty, but he was wrong as usual.

Webber can see his car and Hamilton's. Hamilton can only see what's ahead. and even with a mirror, the driver cannot focus on an apex and following driver at the same time.
Webber has more responsibility becuase he can see everything layed out in front of him.

Just the same way Sutil saw everything and yeilded to Kubica, even though Kubica was in a worse position than Lewis, since he had no right to the racing line.

People are playing the colour thing too soon and sometimes in a way that generalize things to a point where they are the ones being racist, even if by good intentions towards Hamilton and even if they don't belong to the same race as him.

The "colour thing" is an underlying fact.
You can believe what you like, but it's real and it's very subliminal even when the offenders don't even know it. Notice as well I used xenophobia and not racism. Racism is active hatred and not the issue, it's more like a discomfort and paranoia with lewis mixed in with envy.
Obviously people aren't out to nail Hamilton, but you see them rear their heads any time he is involved in anything.
Check out the ferrari mechanic and his orgasmic reaction to the crash.
As if his inner hatred had been completely satisfied.

I'll end the discussion. Lets just wait and see this accident happen to 2 other drivers. Then watch how the argument is rationalized and take note of the difference.

[ringo]

if drivers can't be bothered to pay attention to who is racing them they shouldn't be racing at all and perhaps they should try rally instead where they have the entire racing track to themselves.

translation: Go away Hamilton, get out of Formula1 you don't belong here. go bounce a ball or run some track.

True feelings of the "haters".

but i guess it's all because he's "arrogant".

[zeph]

Stop that already.

[BMW_F1]

you have issues dude.. For the most part I enjoy watching Lewis.
The pressure is getting to him and he is now being less careful. That's all..

[ringo]

Just pulling you're leg. Just an exaggeration to show the level of over scrutiny, and fabrications to prove a point.

Your accusation is baseless. Who told you he wasn't paying attention?
A blind spot is a blind spot. You cannot pay attention to what you cannot see.

Webber could see. Why wasn't he paying attention?

[vall]

Just pulling you're leg. Just an exaggeration to show the level of over scrutiny, and fabrications to prove a point.

Your accusation is baseless. Who told you he wasn't paying attention?
A blind spot is a blind spot. You cannot pay attention to what you cannot see.

Webber could see. Why wasn't he paying attention?

because he had nothing to loose! As somebody summed it up nicely earlier, in 3 of the 4 possible outcomes, Webber wins. So, had every right to defend hard.

[i70q7m7ghw]

At the end of the day Hamilton had to make the move, to not attempt the overtake when he had the opportunity (possibly the only one he would get) would be to concede defeat and give up on the title. You don't win championships by finishing behind your rivals, he needed to take the risk, Webber didn't. He botched it, and I think he knows that more than anyone here.]

We all kick and scream when there's no overtaking in Formula 1, and then when drivers starting taking risks people criticise them. I guess some people just aren't happy if they can't complain

Absolutely no doubt about that, he should have attacked. However, the crash was to a large extent LH's fault because he turned in while Webbo was still there (claiming later he did now know Webber was there). The LH's fans want it to look as Webbo's fault. In their eyes Webber should have conceded the place because LH was 1/2 car ahead when they entered the turn. This is not the way you win WDC either, so Webbo had every right to defend his position. Truth is LH should not have turned in while Webber was there. He should have left space. Well, this is of course a relative term After all, MS claimed he left enough space to Rubens in Hungary because Rubens managed to overtake

I disagree on the fact 'Webbo' had to defend so aggresively because 'this is not the way you win WDC'. He would still have been leading had Hamilton not botched the move and finished 3rd. He's got the fastest car and could probably win 3 of the next 4 races, he didn't need to take the chance in my opinion. For Hamilton it was a move that could have won him the championship, for Webber it was a move that could have lost him the championship. Hamilton's move in Monza though was a move that could only have lost him the championship, and it probably has. I blame neither driver for their actions, it's just a racing incident. Hamilton misjudged it, Webber had an incredibly lucky escape, lets move on.

[i70q7m7ghw]

Just pulling you're leg. Just an exaggeration to show the level of over scrutiny, and fabrications to prove a point.

Your accusation is baseless. Who told you he wasn't paying attention?
A blind spot is a blind spot. You cannot pay attention to what you cannot see.

Webber could see. Why wasn't he paying attention?

because he had nothing to loose! As somebody summed it up nicely earlier, in 3 of the 4 possible outcomes, Webber wins. So, had every right to defend hard.

Wrong way round, Hamilton is the one with nothing to lose, Webber had a championship lead to lose.

[zeph]

Your accusation is baseless. Who told you he wasn't paying attention?
A blind spot is a blind spot. You cannot pay attention to what you cannot see.

Please tell me you don't believe that. Hamilton is in the process of overtaking Webber and a split-second later he has forgotten that he was there, because he can't see what was in his blind spot? Dude, please...

[ringo]

Just pulling you're leg. Just an exaggeration to show the level of over scrutiny, and fabrications to prove a point.

Your accusation is baseless. Who told you he wasn't paying attention?
A blind spot is a blind spot. You cannot pay attention to what you cannot see.

Webber could see. Why wasn't he paying attention?

because he had nothing to loose! As somebody summed it up nicely earlier, in 3 of the 4 possible outcomes, Webber wins. So, had every right to defend hard.

Exactly! case closed.

[ringo]

Your accusation is baseless. Who told you he wasn't paying attention?
A blind spot is a blind spot. You cannot pay attention to what you cannot see.

Please tell me you don't believe that. Hamilton is in the process of overtaking Webber and a split-second later he has forgotten that he was there, because he can't see what was in his blind spot? Dude, please...

I guess you can you see through the back of your head, and if a gun was put to it, you'd know exactly where the bullet would hit you, so you'd "give it enough room" to avoid it.

[Agenda_Is_Incorrect]

Ringo, he was defending a position. I agree he was not the one being overtaken at the time but he was still in physical means to defend the position in the track, even if by attacking. And then again if you watch the Webber onboard you can see Hamilton never got the hole car ahead of him and that he didn't swing right at the crash moment. It was Hamilton that swerved left. If Webber braked late that is a technique and he did it right, as the car wasn't going out of the planned line. It's a tough and polemic scenario of course, but also a very typical race incident. And in many cases no punishments are given, not just if Hamilton is the one that got the bad part of it.

Sure Webber could see and Hamilton not, but that's something Hamilton had to account for and Webber hold his line. My guess is that Hamilton really thought he had passes Webber. It could be as well overconfidence or a gamble. He didn't knew if he had space or not and took a gamble.

As for the subliminal part of racism, I agree with you it exists sometimes even more than conscious racism. But you are making the same mistake again putting things to either this or that. It's not necessarily a case of people being racist or unconsciously racist/xenophobic. Some are for sure, but many or most (I like to believe most) simply grew suspicions on Hamilton by his personal and race-independent record and history. Think of it a bit like Schumacher situation .

Other than that, I agree with zeph about the picture he posted. This will become just flaming if we keep doing generalising accusations.

EDIT: I didn't like the Ferrari mechanic attitude at all also. But he most likely did that because Alonso could now get the 2nd position in WDC. He was anti-sportive, but you can only claim that it was motivated by hate if you knew him. For instance I think Hamilton doesn't sheer everytime a non-black goes off the track, even if some might do it by hate reasons. That's the point.