Jos Verstappen: "Schumacher used TC in 1994"

[strad]

To me it's funny that people let nationalism even enter into it. Trust me, I don't have belief that Mike cheated because he's German, but rather because it was pretty well proven, but because he was the FIAs darling he and the team were not punished. Nothing to do with country of origin.

[Just_a_fan]

Oh man, this english people, never tired to blamed Schumacher was the devil!!!!!!!!! I was so tired, that Senna is the saint and sch the devil! BULLSHIT! I´m not a great Schuey fan but i can see clearly the great talent from him. It´s simply a Country-problem. Michael Schumacher is a german. THAT TELL US ALL! Since 17 years i reading this controversity. Laughable, that Schumacher cheating all the way!

He didn't drive in to Villeneuve because he, Schumacher, was a German; he drove in to him because he was a cheat. He didn't drive in to Hill because he, Schumacher, was a German; he drove in to him because he was a cheat. He didn't use TC/LC in his Benetton because he was a German, he used it because he was a cheat. He didn't park his car at Monaco because he was a German; he did it because he is a cheat.

And he hasn't been getting his arse kicked for the last two seasons by Nico because he's a German but because he hasn't been able to cheat...

What annoys me about Schumacher is that he was the best of his generation but he still had to try to cheat. If he had avoided that unfortunate behaviour, he would be universely regarded as the greatest racing driver ever (better even than Fangio, probably). But he didn't, so he isn't. Not by everyone, anyway.

[yener]

Oh man, this english people, never tired to blamed Schumacher was the devil!!!!!!!!! I was so tired, that Senna is the saint and sch the devil! BULLSHIT! I´m not a great Schuey fan but i can see clearly the great talent from him. It´s simply a Country-problem. Michael Schumacher is a german. THAT TELL US ALL! Since 17 years i reading this controversity. Laughable, that Schumacher cheating all the way!

He didn't drive in to Villeneuve because he, Schumacher, was a German; he drove in to him because he was a cheat. He didn't drive in to Hill because he, Schumacher, was a German; he drove in to him because he was a cheat. He didn't use TC/LC in his Benetton because he was a German, he used it because he was a cheat. He didn't park his car at Monaco because he was a German; he did it because he is a cheat.

And he hasn't been getting his arse kicked for the last two seasons by Nico because he's a German but because he hasn't been able to cheat...

What annoys me about Schumacher is that he was the best of his generation but he still had to try to cheat. If he had avoided that unfortunate behaviour, he would be universely regarded as the greatest racing driver ever (better even than Fangio, probably). But he didn't, so he isn't. Not by everyone, anyway.

Respectless! That man won 7 WC and if Coulthard didnt drive like my grandmother during the 1998 Spa race he would have 8. If he wouldnt braked his leg in 1999 he would have won 9 WC. If all the teams except Ferrari and (1 other team) didnt changed to Michelin tyres he would have won 11 WC.
But ofcourse, braking a leg is a cheat and so are bad visibility in rain and staying loyal to Bridgestone.
All cheats!

[izybluffen]

Just a Fan - I agree.

Senna still got 3/3 poles in 94 before he died which proves to me he was still the fastest and faster than Schumi who was cheating LOL

[Just_a_fan]

Oh man, this english people, never tired to blamed Schumacher was the devil!!!!!!!!! I was so tired, that Senna is the saint and sch the devil! BULLSHIT! I´m not a great Schuey fan but i can see clearly the great talent from him. It´s simply a Country-problem. Michael Schumacher is a german. THAT TELL US ALL! Since 17 years i reading this controversity. Laughable, that Schumacher cheating all the way!

He didn't drive in to Villeneuve because he, Schumacher, was a German; he drove in to him because he was a cheat. He didn't drive in to Hill because he, Schumacher, was a German; he drove in to him because he was a cheat. He didn't use TC/LC in his Benetton because he was a German, he used it because he was a cheat. He didn't park his car at Monaco because he was a German; he did it because he is a cheat.

And he hasn't been getting his arse kicked for the last two seasons by Nico because he's a German but because he hasn't been able to cheat...

What annoys me about Schumacher is that he was the best of his generation but he still had to try to cheat. If he had avoided that unfortunate behaviour, he would be universely regarded as the greatest racing driver ever (better even than Fangio, probably). But he didn't, so he isn't. Not by everyone, anyway.

Respectless! That man won 7 WC and if Coulthard didnt drive like my grandmother during the 1998 Spa race he would have 8. If he wouldnt braked his leg in 1999 he would have won 9 WC. If all the teams except Ferrari and (1 other team) didnt changed to Michelin tyres he would have won 11 WC.
But ofcourse, braking a leg is a cheat and so are bad visibility in rain and staying loyal to Bridgestone.
All cheats!

No, driving in to other cars in an ttempt to take them out of the race is cheating. Parking on track during qualifying is cheating.

Everyone is aware that he won 7 titles. Not everyone sees him as a faultless god though.

Oh, and staying loyal to Bridgestone is one of the things that won him titles. Ferrari had a bespoke tyre from Bridgestone and benefitted massively from it. That's why the FIA adjusted the rules - to nullify the massive tyre advantage Ferrari enjoyed.

[beelsebob]

if Coulthard didnt drive like my grandmother during the 1998 Spa race he would have 8.

You know, it would be really easy to take this and make it into "Schumacher – so crap that he can't avoid a grandmother when the world championship depends on it", but perhaps it's best to avoid hyperbole, I'd advise you to do the same.

[LionKing]

What McLaren did in 2008 is orders of magnitude bigger than alleged Benetton issues in 1994.

So does that make Alonso and Hamilton big cheats as well? Actually Alonso was intimately involved too.

In 1994 FIA found launch control software in Benetton cars, no traction control software was found. İn other teams cars they found bunch of illegal software too.

As for Senna getting three poles:

Schumacher was ahead towards the end when Senna spun out of race in the first race. Schumacher passed Senna at the start in the second race. İn the third one we all know what unfortunately happened.

What Coulhard did in 1998 was utterly stupid. Significantly slowing down on racing line with rain and very very poor visibility on a curved section of the road. Coulhard could not have a better job, if he had instead planned it. That is the kind of accident generally beautiful half of our species would cause

[beelsebob]

What McLaren did in 2008 is orders of magnitude bigger than alleged Benetton issues in 1994.

So does that make Alonso and Hamilton big cheats as well? Actually Alonso was intimately involved too.

If you go back and read more carefully, you'll see that people are rather undecided about what beneton did, and that what they're saying makes schumacher a cheat is things like driving into villeneuve, or stopping on track during qualifying.

[strad]

In 1994 FIA found launch control software in Benetton cars, no traction control software was found. İn other teams cars they found bunch of illegal software too.

I'd like to know what you think you're talking about. It was the traction control that led to the discovery of the launch control.
I know you love your hero, but you have to be aware of your idols clay feet or it makes you a mindless fool. Come now...Michael was a great driver but a very flawed person.

[manchild]

Many people seam to forget or haven't heard when his cheating tradition started.

In 1990 he raced in European Formula 3 Cup at Le Mans. His F3 had Volkswagen engine. After crashing in lap 1, he took spare car and won the race.

After the race a photographer asked him to pose next to the car that had engine cover already removed. The picture revealed that instead of Volkswagen engine, his spare car had Spiess-Opel engine!!! leading to his disqualification.

Knowing that some people might defend him explaining how it was him team that cheated, not him, I ask them in advance - Do you really believe that a racing driver just sits in the cockpit, has no idea what mechanics are doing, and notices no difference in engine sound, throttle feel, power output etc?

If someone has link to that legendary photo, please post it here.


Than of course there was his first "crash the rival" win, when during F3 GP in Macau, he brake-checked Mika Häkkinen on the straight, in order to prevent Mika to overtake him. That was the first time in his career when he deliberately endangered rivals life by causing a collision - simply because they were going to overtake him.

I'm not even going to discuss it as sporting offense, because those were total disregards of rivals life for the sake of his "success". At those speeds those were attempts of murder, including deliberate Monaco parking 2006, as well as his comeback era maneuver on Barrichello in Hungary 2010.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TuvL8dDQxnc[/youtube]

[strad]

yep

[yener]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-4qD9clvL4[/youtube]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALMYI3vUiZg[/youtube]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIr1EJa7TP0[/youtube]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ncj4WL8C8eE[/youtube]

I could send another 200. BUt this is the greatest driver ever which is so not like Michael Schumacher right?

[Giblet]

Find as many as you want. It doesn't take anything away from Schumacher's cheating or make his tarnished career any better in the sporting category.

I would also say the failed pass on Brundle was an obvious racing incident/failed pass. That is not what cheating is.

The idea of the spare car, the extra big brake ducts, these are not on the same level as the team was involved. MS parked on Rascasse, and attempted to punt a driver off the course to win a championship, twice.

If you post another 200, I would like them to be about cheating, not failed passes.

[manchild]

I could send another 200. BUt this is the greatest driver ever which is so not like Michael Schumacher right?

If this thread was a court case instead, and if you were attorney for the defended (MSC), the judge would stop your addressing the first moment you'd try to justify illegal actions of his that were already officially sanctioned, by trying to compare them with the actions of non present, and most of all late person's actions, that weren't officially sanctioned - because no one thought they were what you say they were. Scrupulousness is MSC style, so it doesn't surprise me that you as his fan haven't thought twice before you've started trashing a deceased driver just to serve you in the lack of other arguments.

Being one of the greatest drivers ever which Senna was, and being driver with most titles/wins/poles etc. what MSC is, are two unrelated categories, since the first one is based on the respect of rivals, experts and f1 fans, while the second is just soulless statistics rug with lot of dirt over and under it.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6MlsMVzrp2o[/youtube]

[wesley123]

The idea of the spare car, the extra big brake ducts, these are not on the same level as the team was involved. MS parked on Rascasse, and attempted to punt a driver off the course to win a championship, twice.

Hmm Senna never drove into an opponent on purpose to win the championship

On track Senna wasnt any nicer than Schumacher was, the only difference was that Senna was much more human than Schumacher.

also manchild; do you think people would have rated Senna the same if he still lived? I honestly don't think so.