VW Enters.................

[turbof1]

2017 power unit change is nothing but an increase in fuel flow, don't think there will be any change in the format of the current regulations.

Maybe also a reset in the token system to let Renault catchup

Toto Wolf already explained that the change requires a vast redesign since the fuel flow will have to be a paired with strengthening the engine.

Audi will certainly not joing next year since the following year they'll need to go back to the drawing board. They'll also be looking at how what changes will be made to the token system.

[FW17]

I am not debating on the redesign of the engine

All I am saying is the lessons that is going to be carried over from the current regulations in terms of energy harvesting and management, combustion and airflow efficiency is going to be huge that a simple hike in fuel flow and quota for a race is not going to be hugely beneficial for Audi to bridge the gap to the existing players.


I also feel that if Renault were fielding the current engine in LMP, they would be beating the Porsche.

[turbof1]

I am not debating on the redesign of the engine

All I am saying is the lessons that is going to be carried over from the current regulations in terms of energy harvesting and management, combustion and airflow efficiency is going to be huge that a simple hike in fuel flow and quota for a race is not going to be hugely beneficial for Audi to bridge the gap to the existing players.


I also feel that if Renault were fielding the current engine in LMP, they would be beating the Porsche.

Probably yes. However, that's why they'll be eye balling the situation with the tokens. If they feel they are given enough freedom to improve over the next few years after 2017, they might consider it.

Not saying they'll do it, just discussing points in favor. Lmp is a great series with unfortunately poor exposure to the grand world. F1 has much higher marketing value, just because of the bigger exposure. But then again, it's also a money pit.

[FW17]

I think they might just do away with the token system after the bitter disappointment it has been with its inherent deficiencies

[FoxHound]

I think they might just do away with the token system after the bitter disappointment it has been with its inherent deficiencies

I don't agree with this.

The token system is a scapegoat for anyone who've not hit target.
Ferrari have proved clearly and unequivocally any team starting in the back foot can not only make progress, but big gains with the token system.

But not all teams are equal in their development potential, and surely this is the way of F1?

[FW17]

If the token system was not there Ferrari could have got down to bringing the updates to fix their issues midway through the season rather than being completely off for the entire season. This was not an issue for Ferrari (other than some heads rolling) but for Sauber which could have had some hope of gathering some points in the second half of the season.

This token system is also kind of unfair in terms of it being designed to protect the interest of manufactures in a spending race while it was the midfield and tailend of the F1 teams that wanted cost control and nothing was done to cater to their interest.

[FoxHound]

And the ensuing spending war?

You mention that it protects manufacturers, yet who foots the bill if the spending spirals?
Both customer and manufacturer.

If the customer cannot afford to pay for the newer version, they are left with obsolete engines until they can pay for newer ones.
The result? Wider gaps to the midfield and front runners.

The token system is not perfect, but right now it's better than an all out engine war.

[FW17]

My personal opinion

The mid filed trying to beat the front running works teams is not going to happen neither is it wise to artificially try to bridge the gap. It is a false promise

Manufacturers can spend what they want if they are not interested in spending that they are going to leave

Customers need not use the same engine as the works team, we had years of Ford and Cosworth, Honda and Mugen, Ferrari and Petronas. All worked fine, you had works teams having a $200-300 million engine program while engines were still available for Saubers and Jordans for $10 million

With this guarded token system is just a sad excuse for a lead team to keep its benefits in the pretext of costs

[FoxHound]

If you mean the token system freezes in an advantage over 4 races I'm in complete agreement.

If you are saying it over a complete season, I disagree.
Ferrari had several PU issues that even in an unlimited development formula, would not have seen the light of day until 2015.

It's artificial over 4 races in that it freezes the unit to the spec required to last a season.
I think this needs to be addressed, not the token system.

By allowing 5 engines alleviates this somewhat, but 6 or even 7 engines should make this problem redundant.

We should also not forget that changes can be made freely for reliability and cost purposes.
Renault can and should be maximising the most out of this, as they have shown previously.

But if the sport want turbo v6's with energy recovery systems the like NASA would be proud of, to run off 100kgs of fuel per race, and last 4/5 races...then it will naturally cost more to produce and sell.

If you want a cheaper Formula, restrict the number of obstacles in making it cheaper to produce and sell.

[FW17]

Ferdinand Piech – the 78-year-old chief of the Volkswagen Group – has been effectively shunned by the VW Executive Committee of the Supervisory Board, which has recommended that CEO Martin Winterkorn be offered a new extensive and long-term contract from 2016 onward.

This comes after Piech was believed to be orchestrating the removal of his former favourite from the company, and an emergency meeting was called last week to resolve the internal power struggle.

Piech will have to relinquish his role as chairman of the VW Executive Committee of the Supervisory Board in 2017. The boardroom shift could see plans set in motion for a new decision making processes that could see the VW Group restructure its motorsport programme in the coming 18 months.

Winterkorn took over as CEO of VW Group from Bernd Pischetsrieder in 2007. Prior to that, he had worked as Chairman of the Board at Audi AG, and was a big supporter of its racing projects in sportscars and the DTM. Winterkorn has overseen the expansion and growth of VW Group in recent years to further enhance its status as the leader of EU automakers.

Piech, a member of the Porsche family who strategically moved the ailing brand upmarket from its 1990s doldrums, recently criticized Winterkorn for VW's poor performance in the USA.

VW is made up of several shareholders, with Porsche Holdings SE owning the leading percentage. The rest of the board is made up of unknown and private shareholders: Qatar Holding LLC, led by Hamad bin Jassim bin Jaber Al Thani, plus the State of Lower Saxony and other German industrial investors.

Why F1 move is on the radar

The VW Group has long been rumoured to be looking at a Formula 1 entry with one of its brands. Audi is widely understood to be the most likely to undertake an F1 programme, but Motorsport.com understands that Suzuki and Bugatti have also undertaken feasibility studies in recent years.

Audi last year employed three key ex-F1 staff members. They were ex-Ferrari F1 team team principal Stefano Domenicali, former BMW and Williams engineer Jorg Zander and Gabriele Delicolli, who is a former Ferrari simulator specialist.

In 2011 Wolfgang Durheimer, director Bentley and Bugatti, told German magazine Auto Motor Und Sport that “if [the VW group] is at the forefront of the auto industry, I can imagine us competing in Formula 1 in 2018. We have enough brands to pull it off.”

An end to VW's 'personality issue'

The main stumbling block to this previously has been the fact that Piech did not like F1 supremo Bernie Ecclestone, and despite the two having only met on fleeting formal occasions there appears to be a mutual dislike between the two on a personal basis.

However, Ecclestone said during the Bahrain Grand Prix weekend that he would step down if Audi demanded it as a condition to enter F1.

The VW Group currently structures its racing successfully around the thriving World Endurance Championship (Audi and Porsche), the World Rally Championship, Rallycross and F3 (VW) and GT racing (Bentley and Lamborghini). It produces road cars under the brands Audi, Bentley, Bugatti, Lamborghini, Porsche, SEAT, Skoda and VW.

VW also owns the Bundesliga team VF Wolfsburg, where the company is based and was a sponsor of the 2014 Winter Olympics.

[MarkedOne8]

Isn't it better for works teams to spend little by little during the year(season) and improve their engines or to have large burst and sudden freeze every time the big rule change happens? IMO token system is quite good. Not perfect, but its good for the fans, for the sport as whole.
Before 2014, I was saying that only real factory (works) teams will be on the top. Mercedes was on top, Ferrari messed it up but are back now. Red Bull/Renault were not/are not real works team. You have to have as close as possible connection between new power unit and chassis development. That's why I couldn't see McLaren Honda being near the top straight away, but I hope time will prove that I am wrong because this sport always needs more and more teams fighting at the front. Audi as full factory team would be jackpot for F1. Maybe they could enter first as a PU manufacturer then go full factory with it's own team.
I think they are certainly going to join F1 sooner or later, but I really really hope they will join sooner. 2016 is probably toooo optimistic.

[kudryavchik]

Audi will not come. Why?:
1. They have a great squad of drivers, what to do with them if audi leave? Dismiss? No way audi will go the path to lose such a team.
2. There is no marketing gain for manufacturers in f1. If you run well, nobody talks about you. When you lose, all the news will be around you. So you lose more than gain. Currently, renault and honda have lost their reputation. Pirreli is an example of laughts with their condom tyres.
3. Battle between porsche and audi in silverstone was written and shown in all sport media and current lmp1 cars are the most advanced machines. What could vw wish more?

[Nathanael F1]

I don't think VW will be too eager to enter F1, especially after seeing what happened to other big car manufacturers like Toyota, BMW, and Honda. But of course that's just my opinion.

[Manoah2u]

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/ ... t-carmaker

piech steps down

welcome Audi/VW/Porsche into F1

[George-Jung]

Audi and Porsche can stay in WEC.. How about Lamborghini entering F1?
How about Lamborghini out performing Ferrari in F1.. that would definitely be good for VAG.. I think.