No More Grid Girls - replaced by Grid Kids

[dren]

F1 is predominantly a male viewed sport. Most men find women attractive. Therefore, Grid Girls. Men are now made to feel guilty about liking women for their looks. I'm going to hell.

[Big Tea]

That seems to be where most people will be, so see you there then?

[McHonda]

F1 is predominantly a male viewed sport. Most men find women attractive. Therefore, Grid Girls. Men are now made to feel guilty about liking women for their looks. I'm going to hell.

That's essentially what Liberty want to change. If they were only interested in the current viewers they'd be still there.

And you shouldn't feel guilty, that's what they were there for.

[Big Mangalhit]

I really enjoy this discussion. There are good arguments to both sides and I think the question itself is too deep for us to get a right and wrong answer.

But there is just an argument I can't understand and it has been used a lot which is that the girls will lose their jobs (???). I mean is that really a job? can you make a living out of a 30min holding of a number plate once per year? Cause if you can, then I'm 100% pro the grid girls and will in fact make a sex change and apply myself for that.

You know how this could be solved IMO, having grid people (any gender, age, etc.) but make it 100% volunteer. I'll bet the same way we have volunteer ball boys in other sports we'd have volunteer people for this. If it was 100% self-choice and with no interests, I don't think it could be sexist, or could it? Even if girls would like to do it in fancy dresses (mind that as presented before they are not even that sexualising, probably not even the more revealing dresses on the paddock) would it not be the same as them posting sexy pics on instagram or whatever?

More than 1 of the former grid girls have stared that the money earned went towards their education. Also it already is 100% self-choice. Well in countries that have western ideals of freedom of choice (I don't know about states that have more state control of citizens).

I don't think it is sexist at all. I would however like it to be opened up to both sexes if it were to somehow stay. As you say the clothes were not even extraordinary. You see that kind of outfit in the summer everyday.

Humm. That is why I think this topic is complicated in many levels, cause if they do it for money I don't really think it can be considered 100% their choice, unless they already have enough to make a full living, which I doubt. The same why as nobody picks up trash on the street 100% willingly, they have to do it. But as a society we absolutely need to have trash collection, but do we absolutely need a girl (or boy for that matter) to hold a plate with a number?

Ofc this would be entering a bit of a philosophical debate which is not the point here. I guess we're all bored until the cars are finally presented.

PS: This is especially a moot point if the dozens of girls filling the wall in the way to the podium will still be there.

[NathanOlder]

That seems to be where most people will be, so see you there then?

Im only packing swimming shorts and sun cream, See you by the pool guys

[santos]

So.. what's next? Stop using cheerleaders? Female players of american football, will have to dress like a nun. Charlize Theron, i'm sorry, you're just to beautiful to make a comercial naked.

[Phil]

That's essentially what Liberty want to change. If they were only interested in the current viewers they'd be still there.

Good luck with that. If they continue to move the sport away from what it is in their goal to make it more gender neutral, they'll run the risk of losing touch with their core fanbase. I'm not saying grid-girls will change that, but the sport already has been in the spotlight regarding recent changes like i.e. Halo and then there is also the point about it disappearing behind a paywall.

Fact is; I know few women who are (or will be) interested in F1 or motorsport in general (and banning grid girls or making it more family friendly ain't gonna change that). Those women that are, are not sensitive to it being a predominant male orientated sport/event. I also strongly disagree that F1 should become more "family friendly" or anything. If you want that kind of thing, take your kids to the zoo or something.

If seeing sexuality, hot girls or "grid girls" is a problem, then we might as well argue the influence about seeing racing drivers drive their cars at deadly speeds and if that has an impact on how we (or our children) will drive cars on public roads too. Or should we stop that too because it sets a dangerous precedent and encourage dangerous and wreckless "testosterone" driven driving too?

[McHonda]

That's essentially what Liberty want to change. If they were only interested in the current viewers they'd be still there.

Good luck with that. If they continue to move the sport away from what it is in their goal to make it more gender neutral, they'll run the risk of losing touch with their core fanbase. I'm not saying grid-girls will change that, but the sport already has been in the spotlight regarding recent changes like i.e. Halo and then there is also the point about it disappearing behind a paywall.

Fact is; I know few women who are (or will be) interested in F1 or motorsport in general (and banning grid girls or making it more family friendly ain't gonna change that). Those women that are, are not sensitive to it being a predominant male orientated sport/event. I also strongly disagree that F1 should become more "family friendly" or anything. If you want that kind of thing, take your kids to the zoo or something.

If seeing sexuality, hot girls or "grid girls" is a problem, then we might as well argue the influence about seeing racing drivers drive their cars at deadly speeds and if that has an impact on how we (or our children) will drive cars on public roads too. Or should we stop that too because it sets a dangerous precedent and encourage dangerous and wreckless "testosterone" driven driving too?

Businesses like money and women have plenty of it so of course Liberty will want to try and tap into that by being more 'gender neutral'. They simply don't want to aim it just at men anymore.

I've heard from multiple women who tried to watch F1 but felt like it wasn't for them because it came across as being aimed towards men and the grid girls were a big reason for that. Yet my own sister watched it for a few years because she had a crush on a driver. And there are plenty of female fans right now despite the grid girls presence and who don't have a crush on a driver. Point is there's a lot of different opinions amongst women, unsurprisingly enough they don't all want or need the same thing and your examples are just as true as theirs.

Liberty are going to try and maximise their profits and we're definitely not going to agree with all the changes they make in trying to do so but this is one I just don't care a single jot about. I barely notice them, they add nothing to the race for me and because I know why they were there, I can't pretend I don't know why they've gone and blame it on whatever bogeyman is flavour of the month instead.

[Sieper]

oh come on, there are plenty here who also have a crush on a driver! (self included )

[Fulcrum]

Before, and if, I wade in to this merry discussion, were the 'fans' consulted? Or is this simply another example of Liberty making an executive decision and deciding what we enjoy best on our behalf? They're obviously perfectly entitled to do whatever they like, it just seems odd when they claim to want to 'engage' more than has historically been the case.

[Phil]

Sorry I don't want to nitpick, but

I've heard from multiple women who tried to watch F1 but felt like it wasn't for them because it came across as being aimed towards men and the grid girls were a big reason for that.

I find that extremely unlikely, sorry. The grid girls are seen, what, 0.1% of the time of an actual F1 event? If you are at the race (yes, I've been to a few) you will not see them, unless you have paddock tickets. On most broadcasts, you will not see them. If you do, no one is paying attention to them. Again; it's motorsport. Most women (yes, I know plenty, I drive a hardcore car and I go and do trackdays too) are not into motorsports because they don't get off by watching cars drive around in circles and they are not into the speed thingy as much as we are. Some girls actually like driving fast (just as they like going on rollercoasters) etc, but most of them are just wired differently.

It is aimed at men, because it's a male driven sport. And no, it isn't male driven because of the grid girls or the sex appeal.

Men are ultimately testosterone driven, it's in our genetic make-up, we are wired that way. Women are wired differently, more out for 'self preservation' etc. This stuff is actually backed up by statistics (as in accident rates of public roads and risk assessment that include gender). In other words, yes, you will get women that are into fast cars, love driving fast, will be as die hard F1 fans as some guys are, but overall, in sheer numbers, they just won't be that much into it. Grid-girls have zero to do with that.

This banning of grid-girls will affect or be negatively noticed by a majority of existing fans and only a minuscule, micro if not peta (yes 10^15) minority of the potential viewers outthere will even care or notice it.

[dans79]

I find that extremely unlikely, sorry. The grid girls are seen, what, 0.1% of the time of an actual F1 event? If you are at the race (yes, I've been to a few) you will not see them, unless you have paddock tickets. On most broadcasts, you will not see them.

Here in the US they where shown all the time in the 30 minutes before the race, Usually before cutting to a commercial or right after coming back from one. I can't think of a race I didn't see at least one of them.

[McHonda]

Sorry I don't want to nitpick, but

I've heard from multiple women who tried to watch F1 but felt like it wasn't for them because it came across as being aimed towards men and the grid girls were a big reason for that.

I find that extremely unlikely, sorry. The grid girls are seen, what, 0.1% of the time of an actual F1 event? If you are at the race (yes, I've been to a few) you will not see them, unless you have paddock tickets. On most broadcasts, you will not see them. If you do, no one is paying attention to them. Again; it's motorsport. Most women (yes, I know plenty, I drive a hardcore car and I go and do trackdays too) are not into motorsports because they don't get off by watching cars drive around in circles and they are not into the speed thingy as much as we are. Some girls actually like driving fast (just as they like going on rollercoasters) etc, but most of them are just wired differently.

It is aimed at men, because it's a male driven sport. And no, it isn't male driven because of the grid girls or the sex appeal.

Men are ultimately testosterone driven, it's in our genetic make-up, we are wired that way. Women are wired differently, more out for 'self preservation' etc. This stuff is actually backed up by statistics (as in accident rates of public roads and risk assessment that include gender). In other words, yes, you will get women that are into fast cars, love driving fast, will be as die hard F1 fans as some guys are, but overall, in sheer numbers, they just won't be that much into it. Grid-girls have zero to do with that.

This banning of grid-girls will affect or be negatively noticed by a majority of existing fans and only a minuscule, micro if not peta (yes 10^15) minority of the potential viewers outthere will even care or notice it.

Well I can't make you believe me. It's not really shocking though that a women's preconception that it's a sport meant for men would be reinforced by the grid girls presence, however fleeting. I don't know if 'grid girls' includes the podium as well so I don't know if the happy clappers are included in being dropped but those were specifically mentioned by the women too.

Liberty may well fall flat in their attempts to bring more females into the Sport but the bottom line demands they must try. I'm sure I'm going to hate changes made too but this one was so obvious and inconsequential to the event that I'm not bothered by it at all.

You said yourself you barely see them so what are you missing?

[JAA17]

Anyone follow Tour cycling?

They are keeping the girls, but having a podium girl and a podium boy for each jersey presentation. So all the models get to keep their extra cash for the Tour and there is no issue about sexism. Everyone's a winner.

[Phil]

I find that extremely unlikely, sorry. The grid girls are seen, what, 0.1% of the time of an actual F1 event? If you are at the race (yes, I've been to a few) you will not see them, unless you have paddock tickets. On most broadcasts, you will not see them.

Here in the US they where shown all the time in the 30 minutes before the race, Usually before cutting to a commercial or right after coming back from one. I can't think of a race I didn't see at least one of them.

Maybe I should clarify - I was citing my disbelief about the implication that there are women who would think that F1 is aimed at Men because of the grid girls or felt it wasn't for them because of those girls.

Yes, it is aimed at men, because motorsports is inherently something that guys are [more] into [than women]. Having or not having grid girls does not change that. I also don't believe that there are women that would find offense or a distaste about F1 because of the grid girls. They'll not be interested in F1 because they are not interested.

As for CotA, well grid girls, cheerleaders, AFAIK is something that is way bigger in the US (probably originated there too!), so naturally the promoters of such a GP will emphasize that aspect more. I don't think this topic is singling out this specific GP though as a reason as what the usage of those girls encompass or not. As others have shown, not all countries use grid girls in that way or emphasize them.

And to keep this topic relevant; I do wonder what the promoters of GPs think about Liberty Media banning grid girls. If grid girls and models are a big selling point in getting lots of people (probably men) to their race, well, with them not being allowed to use that, how will this impact those sales? Maybe they should be allowed to bring animals to the F1 races to get that family-friendly feel they might be aiming at. Yeah right. I can already see F1s popularity on the rise.