2011 18" tyres...

Here are our CFD links and discussions about aerodynamics, suspension, driver safety and tyres. Please stick to F1 on this forum.

What tyre diameter should F1 use?

13"
16
30%
18"
28
53%
other
9
17%
 
Total votes: 53

User avatar
machin
162
Joined: 25 Nov 2008, 14:45

Re: 2011 18" tyres...

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richard_leeds wrote: We want more pit stops, not less??
If we can sort out the formulae and improve overtaking (see other threads!) then we want LESS pitstops... have all the overtaking on the track and stop carting round hundreds of tyres to each grand prix.....
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Richard
Richard
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Joined: 15 Apr 2009, 14:41
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Re: 2011 18" tyres...

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machin wrote:
richard_leeds wrote: We want more pit stops, not less??
If we can sort out the formulae and improve overtaking (see other threads!) then we want LESS pitstops... have all the overtaking on the track and stop carting round hundreds of tyres to each grand prix.....
For me, the strategic and technical part of F1 is very important. No pit stops would mean no strategy once the lights go green. The entertainment value of a puit stop would also be greatly missed.

Put it another way, 20 cars doing 2 stops each results in 40 opportunities for breaking the procession. It also mixes the pack so we get faster cars mixed with slower cars.

autogyro
autogyro
53
Joined: 04 Oct 2009, 15:03

Re: 2011 18" tyres...

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More or less pit stops?
I realy dont know.
I have a pretty good idea on the technical and driver issues but the conclusion should be based on both spectator appeal and how the format motivates developments in efficiency.
Difficult one.

xxChrisxx
xxChrisxx
44
Joined: 18 Sep 2009, 19:22

Re: 2011 18" tyres...

Post

richard_leeds wrote:
machin wrote:
richard_leeds wrote: We want more pit stops, not less??
If we can sort out the formulae and improve overtaking (see other threads!) then we want LESS pitstops... have all the overtaking on the track and stop carting round hundreds of tyres to each grand prix.....
For me, the strategic and technical part of F1 is very important. No pit stops would mean no strategy once the lights go green. The entertainment value of a puit stop would also be greatly missed.

Put it another way, 20 cars doing 2 stops each results in 40 opportunities for breaking the procession. It also mixes the pack so we get faster cars mixed with slower cars.
You also allow for an ultra conservative stratrgy eliminating 'real' and 'meaningful' passes for position. All overtaking is done through the pits. You give the opportunity to basically turn the race into a time trial.

Everyone seems to be hung up on overtaking though, yes it's a problem but it's not the only thing that makes a race exciting. The build up to a good overtake is acutally more exciting than the actual event.

For example, many people laud the Mansell overtake on Piquet in 87 as one of the best ever. If you look at it the move itsself isn't that exciting or special in any way. What made it truly special was the way Mansell hunted him down at over a second a lap for something like 27 laps.

So the overtaking and strategy thing is not the regulations fault per se, but a product of the way the modern world works, everything is risk managed and minimalised.

Back in the 80's and early 90's the whole sport was more cavalier in it's attitude, you would have people that would just stick one up the inside. It's personally why I enjoyed watching people like Alesi, the man was quick and not afraid to just go for it. Granted, he ended up driving into people more often than not, but it was exciting to watch.


EDIT: To be on topic: I don't really care if they have 13" or 18" wheels. It really doesn't make a jot of difference from a spectators point of view.

User avatar
Moanlower
2
Joined: 17 Apr 2008, 17:57
Location: Belgium

13 inch vs 18 inch

Post

What are your thoughts on changing the diameter of F1's tyre from 13 to 18 inch?

I think it will only reduce costs for the tyre manufacturers and will increase the costs for F1 teams massively to adjust the ride height and everything that goes with it. Considering everything that has been done thus far to reduce costs I think changing to 18 inch tyres would be stupid.
Last edited by mx_tifoso on 22 Apr 2010, 19:43, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: I merged this thread/post into this existing one.
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WhiteBlue
92
Joined: 14 Apr 2008, 20:58
Location: WhiteBlue Country

Re: 2011 18" tyres...

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Perhaps the moderator can open the poll.

I agree that a new thread makes no sense. We already have 9 pages of opinion on the issue. Our opinion will not make any difference to the outcome. Having 18 or 13 inch wheels is part of the decision about the next tyre supplier in F1. It is known that the 18 inch question is seen as a secondary issue compared to the request for a tyre war. Many teams like McLaren, Lotus and Virgin have said that they can live with 18 inch wheels if the tech regs are adjusted in a sensible way.
Last edited by WhiteBlue on 22 Apr 2010, 19:49, edited 2 times in total.
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mx_tifoso
mx_tifoso
0
Joined: 30 Nov 2006, 05:01
Location: North America

Re: 2011 18" tyres...

Post

Ze poll was lost in ze process of merging. If "Moanlower' wishes to PM me the poll he previously had I think I can open it for this thread using the OP.
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ESPImperium
ESPImperium
64
Joined: 06 Apr 2008, 00:08
Location: Glasgow, Scotland

Re: 2011 18" tyres...

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Pirelli eyes F1 return : http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/83101

Only good for the sport i feel. If we have Michelen and Pirelli fighting it out, Bridgestone are only gonna have to stay as its gonna hurt them alot.

However, if we have 3 or four manufacturers, its only gonna make performance differenciators, whitch i think are imperitive for the sport. Where each car is allowed one "performance differencator" as i call them, theese could be a torque transfer device, mass damper, F-Duct. Basically something thats illeagel at current, that each team is allowed to have on their car for a period of one year only.

The sport is looking spicy for 2011 already!!!

autogyro
autogyro
53
Joined: 04 Oct 2009, 15:03

Re: 2011 18" tyres...

Post

ESPImperium wrote:Pirelli eyes F1 return : http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/83101

Only good for the sport i feel. If we have Michelen and Pirelli fighting it out, Bridgestone are only gonna have to stay as its gonna hurt them alot.

However, if we have 3 or four manufacturers, its only gonna make performance differenciators, whitch i think are imperitive for the sport. Where each car is allowed one "performance differencator" as i call them, theese could be a torque transfer device, mass damper, F-Duct. Basically something thats illeagel at current, that each team is allowed to have on their car for a period of one year only.

The sport is looking spicy for 2011 already!!!
No please! that would make F1 like some glorified arcade game with a list of things to choose. The result would be chaos.
F1 is highly structured in regulations, with input from many areas and always has been.
Deciding the regulations is the only thing I would like to continue to include the teams on.
Even so the final decision must remain firmly with the FIA, we are about to see if this still works or whether F1 is going to decline because of the Fota debacle.
Steering development in the F1 technologies, making the results relevent in the world at large and making them improve the spectacle of F1, is a prime responsibility of the regulation process. It should be strict and enforced, not a lottery as you suggest.

User avatar
Moanlower
2
Joined: 17 Apr 2008, 17:57
Location: Belgium

Re: 2011 18" tyres...

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Having more than one tyre supplier will only divide the field again into 2 groups and I don't think it will beneficial in any way for the competition..

I also think the ones who prefer the 18" tyres are only judging in a 'pimp my ride' frame of mind.
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Jersey Tom
Jersey Tom
166
Joined: 29 May 2006, 20:49
Location: Huntersville, NC

Re: 2011 18" tyres...

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ESPImperium wrote:Only good for the sport i feel. If we have Michelen and Pirelli fighting it out, Bridgestone are only gonna have to stay as its gonna hurt them alot.
Not following this logic.
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flynfrog
Moderator
Joined: 23 Mar 2006, 22:31

Re: 2011 18" tyres...

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I for one would love to see a 3 way tire war. Maybe find a way to reduce marbles a set durometer maybe?

I would also love to see a one weekend race engine with a spec displacement no rev limit and allow unlimited kers.

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WhiteBlue
92
Joined: 14 Apr 2008, 20:58
Location: WhiteBlue Country

Re: 2011 18" tyres...

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The proponents of a tyre war have forgotten that it is largely a lottery for the teams. The teams own innovations don't count any more. The tyre progress dictates who is ahead and the whole thing is fought with endless testing that costs much more money than F1 teams can afford today. In my view it is unwise to even consider a tyre war. If they are forced into one they should insist to rotate the suppliers each race.
Formula One's fundamental ethos is about success coming to those with the most ingenious engineering and best .............................. organization, not to those with the biggest budget. (Dave Richards)

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flynfrog
Moderator
Joined: 23 Mar 2006, 22:31

Re: 2011 18" tyres...

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I dont buy the whole teams cant afford it. If teams cant afford it they wont do it.

I see your point about taking some of the results out of the teams control. On the other hand I find today forced two compound one manf. tires a bore. Its really not that different than using a customer engine. I dont know about you but I find the testing almost as exciting as the races.

What if teams were not allowed tire contracts. They could use what ever tire they wanted at any point in the race. I know that setups and car design are heavily dependent on tire data but..... It might work.

Jersey Tom
Jersey Tom
166
Joined: 29 May 2006, 20:49
Location: Huntersville, NC

Re: 2011 18" tyres...

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I wouldn't mind a tire war.. if we were in it.. just to crush Michelin. Traveling to foreign locations like Monte Carlo wouldn't be bad either.
Grip is a four letter word. All opinions are my own and not those of current or previous employers.