Recent performances of Felipe Massa

[tarrant]

He melted Kimi Raikonens bum in 2008 and 2009, so it's not about Alonso being relatively better, unless kimi is crap.

So basically your whole thinking revolves around your denial of a conclusion you don't like, that Kimi is crap compared to Alonso. I understand that may be hard to swallow but the evidence shows it without doubt. In 2006 Massa was dominated by Schumacher yet the following year he matched Kimi, so unless you believe Massa found a bunch of talent over an off season, there is only one conclusion.

Alonso fans wish Massa was the same, but he isn't. He is simply not driving the car in the same way even if we ignore Alonso.
Massa was a very fast driver, never one to under-perform in the car, and outclassing the fin in many a race.

Massa never under performed in an f1 car? Do you watch f1?

Mass has some kind of damage, and we might only hear about it when he leaves ferrari or retires from the sport.
Brazilian footballer ronaldo had a thyroid problem which directly affected his endurance and fitness and he never said a word about it till he retired. He soaked up all the "fatman" criticisms, without even saying that his thyroid condition was the reason for his fitness.

I think Massa and Ferrari are hiding something and they may give him an honorable discharge when his contract is up.

So there is a big conspiracy, and Ferrari for some crazy illogical reason are hiding the fact that their driver has brain damage, and infact decided to extend his contract? Why on earth would be do something so stupid?

[tarrant]

Add to that the final and most important point: the injury. I doubt that Ferrari and Massa are hiding something, but I agree that the effect on Massa is not necessarily physical and "visible". Few of you will remember Stirling Moss, often considered to be the greatest driver who never won a WDC. He had a horrible racing accident, (ironically, shortly before he was to join the Ferrari F1 team). He made a complete physical recovery, but was never the same driver again. None of us can know what impact Massa's accident had on him. As perceptively noted by another poster, if Massa has lost just 1% of his skill (whether through physical or psychological damage doesn't matter) then he will no longer be able to compete at the very highest level.

Unlike most other accidents, Massa's was not a racing incident, or a car failure or a driving error, infact he doesnt even remember it, so there is no reason for him to have mental scars or lost confidence from it , compared to mosses accident.

[bot6]

Speaks volumes...

[andrew]

Unlike most other accidents, Massa's was not a racing incident, or a car failure or a driving error, infact he doesnt even remember it, so there is no reason for him to have mental scars or lost confidence from it , compared to mosses accident.

He maybe doesn't remember the accident but he certainly knows about it and knows what happened. Sure his accident was not down to driver error but to say he will have no mental scars (sound a bit dramatic!) and not have lost any confidence is just wrong.

Then there is Ferrari bending over in every possible direction for Sandtander, sorry I mean Alonso, and giving Massa, who has probably been one of the most loyal drivers Ferrari has had, what appears to be very little support.

It's an amazing test of character when you look at Barrichello bitching about being Schumachers team mate (despite being signed as driver 1B to driver 1A - so no. 2 in other words) at any given opportunity yet I have never heard a word of complaint come from Masssa.

[tarrant]

Unlike most other accidents, Massa's was not a racing incident, or a car failure or a driving error, infact he doesnt even remember it, so there is no reason for him to have mental scars or lost confidence from it , compared to mosses accident.

He maybe doesn't remember the accident but he certainly knows about it and knows what happened. Sure his accident was not down to driver error but to say he will have no mental scars (sound a bit dramatic!) and not have lost any confidence is just wrong.

Then there is Ferrari bending over in every possible direction for Sandtander, sorry I mean Alonso, and giving Massa, who has probably been one of the most loyal drivers Ferrari has had, what appears to be very little support.

It's an amazing test of character when you look at Barrichello bitching about being Schumachers team mate (despite being signed as driver 1B to driver 1A - so no. 2 in other words) at any given opportunity yet I have never heard a word of complaint come from Masssa.

You sound like an armchair psychologist so can you explain how he would have lost confidence by being hit on the head by a random flying bolt? When you lose confidence you have doubt and fear, so where is this coming from? Is he driving around scared of being hit by another random flying bolt?


Speaking of support, didnt he get his contract extended last year? Cant think of better support than that.

[andrew]

You sound like an armchair psychologist so can you explain how he would have lost confidence by being hit on the head by a random flying bolt? When you lose confidence you have doubt and fear, so where is this coming from? Is he driving around scared of being hit by another random flying bolt?


Speaking of support, didnt he get his contract extended last year? Cant think of better support than that.

I'm not an armchair psychologist but I am simply applying common sense. To say that someone has had a life threatening accident but has no reason to loose confidence or any mental scars is complete rubbish. There will now be the "what if" at the back of his mind. Everyone suffers from this to some extent when something goes wrong in their life, be it making a mistake at work, getting knocked down by a bus when crossing the road, car accident or a high speed crash due to a component falling out of the back of the car in front.

Sure his contract has been extended until the end of 2012 but that means very little. Didn't Raikkonen have a contract for last year? Point is, if Ferrari want rid of a driver they have deep enough pockets to make it happen.

[tarrant]

I'm not an armchair psychologist but I am simply applying common sense. To say that someone has had a life threatening accident but has no reason to loose confidence or any mental scars is complete rubbish. There will now be the "what if" at the back of his mind. Everyone suffers from this to some extent when something goes wrong in their life, be it making a mistake at work, getting knocked down by a bus when crossing the road, car accident or a high speed crash due to a component falling out of the back of the car in front.

I really dont see any common sense in your theory, its just a vauge assertion that any accident will reduce a persons confidence and produce mental scars, with zero evidence to support it. There are many types of accidents, they can be from negligence, back luck , errors of judgement ect, and they can produce the side effects your talking about, but Massa's was a freak accident that has close to zero percent change of happening again. There is no reason for him to lose confidence over it, especially considering it has NOTHING to do with driving, and like I said before he does not remmeber it, a very major point that you seem to brush over.

Sure his contract has been extended until the end of 2012 but that means very little. Didn't Raikkonen have a contract for last year? Point is, if Ferrari want rid of a driver they have deep enough pockets to make it happen.

So a contract extension and job security means very little? Strange. I cant think of anything more important to Massa.

[raymondu999]

I don't think it's confidence, but I think what Andrew is getting at, is, when you've come so close to death, and escaped, it makes you appreciate things a lot more. You begin to remember your family more, etc etc. So perhaps scared isn't the right word, but I think he'll be a bit more timid as a driver.

[Goran2812]

well timid doesn't cut it obviously... i think it's time for massa to move on... perhaps to a different racing category or smth... i mean,look at him at the photo posted here... just look at him... i see a sad and desperate guy...

[ringo]

So basically your whole thinking revolves around your denial of a conclusion you don't like, that Kimi is crap compared to Alonso. I understand that may be hard to swallow but the evidence shows it without doubt. In 2006 Massa was dominated by Schumacher yet the following year he matched Kimi, so unless you believe Massa found a bunch of talent over an off season, there is only one conclusion.

I am saying Kimi is very good and so is Alonso. The only one who changed was Massa, right after the accident. Massa never underperformed before the accident. Being world champion for 30s, winning your home race, while having Kimi as your #2 driver, is not under performing.

Massa never under performed in an f1 car? Do you watch f1?

Pre 2009? yes.

So there is a big conspiracy, and Ferrari for some crazy illogical reason are hiding the fact that their driver has brain damage, and infact decided to extend his contract? Why on earth would be do something so stupid?

Because their most dedicated driver almost died in their car.

[ringo]

Unlike most other accidents, Massa's was not a racing incident, or a car failure or a driving error, infact he doesnt even remember it, so there is no reason for him to have mental scars or lost confidence from it , compared to mosses accident.

He maybe doesn't remember the accident but he certainly knows about it and knows what happened. Sure his accident was not down to driver error but to say he will have no mental scars (sound a bit dramatic!) and not have lost any confidence is just wrong.

Then there is Ferrari bending over in every possible direction for Sandtander, sorry I mean Alonso, and giving Massa, who has probably been one of the most loyal drivers Ferrari has had, what appears to be very little support.

It's an amazing test of character when you look at Barrichello bitching about being Schumachers team mate (despite being signed as driver 1B to driver 1A - so no. 2 in other words) at any given opportunity yet I have never heard a word of complaint come from Masssa.

You sound like an armchair psychologist so can you explain how he would have lost confidence by being hit on the head by a random flying bolt? When you lose confidence you have doubt and fear, so where is this coming from? Is he driving around scared of being hit by another random flying bolt?


Speaking of support, didnt he get his contract extended last year? Cant think of better support than that.

A 1 kilogram bolt, flying into his face at 250kph.
What damage? Brush it off and get on with it.
no harm done at all, good as new, not 1 ounce of debilitation.

[tarrant]

I am saying Kimi is very good and so is Alonso. The only one who changed was Massa, right after the accident. Massa never underperformed before the accident. Being world champion for 30s, winning your home race, while having Kimi as your #2 driver, is not under performing.

Massa did not change, his team mates changed. Alonso is not Kimi so matter how much you wish he was. Massa often under performed, and he only looked good in 2008 because Kimi was terrible. Go over the races in 2008 and he under performed in half of them.

Because their most dedicated driver almost died in their car.

Ye so? It was not Ferrari's fault, so that is not an issue. Ferrari would not handicapp 50% of its team for sentimental reasons, and give a handicapped driver a contract extension. Thats just ridiculous.

[tarrant]

I don't think it's confidence, but I think what Andrew is getting at, is, when you've come so close to death, and escaped, it makes you appreciate things a lot more. You begin to remember your family more, etc etc. So perhaps scared isn't the right word, but I think he'll be a bit more timid as a driver.

It would depend on why you came close to death. If you crashed a car or fell while mountain climbing you could be worried it would happen again, but Massa was in a freak accident, so unless hes scared of more flying bolts he has nothing to worry about.

[Hangaku]

I think The Bulk would suit a Williams F1 car very well.

[tarrant]

For the Massa excuse makers, when did he become very fast exactly? Was he very fast in 2006 when Schumacher dominated him? or did it suddenly happen in 2007?

What does it say about Schumacher and Kimi that they performed very differently relative to Massa?