Horsepower of the engines.

[pgfpro]

Makes no sense to me. Are you saying you measured the power at 169 hp? . . and switching off the 30 hp electric motor drops the output to 120 hp?

It drops to 150HP.

[pgfpro]

@pgf pro
it's easy for me to type in a few words, so .....

have you measured 150 hp ?
ie are you assuming the EM is giving 30 hp at all rpm or measured EM power as 30 hp at all rpm ?

is this the Honda EM ?
in 2000 that was fwiw rated at 13 hp@1500 rpm (the mean current through the EM will be limited to a desired value to do this)
if you supplied the same mean current at 6000 rpm (4x1500 rpm) that would give nominally 4x13 hp = 52 hp
so in this way that EM could add say 49 hp to the ICE at 6000 rpm (ie giving 169 hp total)

Yes 150HP

Its a modified Honda Insight ICE and IMA

We accounted for the higher HP as rpm increases but are still trying to calculate the EM losses at higher rpm?

So by giving the EM the best efficiency case scenario were still looking at 4 HP unaccounted for???
Now I totally understand that this can be just some type of popcorn data. I need more ABA testing at this point. We had issues with the ICE and will fix this in a couple months.

[ringo]

Changed a few things with my calculations regarding air and fuel properties. Also in light of revelations of the combustion pressures and the efficiency of the power unit, i have tried to integrate that into the calcs.
It's interesting how the same engine, with different combustion and fuel management can produce a vast difference in power.
I think 800hp from the ICE is possible from the Mercedes Unit. I am not sure how difficult it is to emulate but its theoretically possible.
The ICE is around 40% brake thermal efficiency and the Self sustaining MGUH + ICE power is around 52%.

It would be interesting to see what Renault will do with their combustion to catch up to the others.

[gruntguru]

So you calculate 615 from the crankshaft and 185 from the MGUH? I would guess less from MGUH and more from the crankshaft.

[hurril]

So you calculate 615 from the crannkshaft and 185 from the MGUH? I would guess less from MGUH and more from the crankshaft.

_From_ the MGU-h? Are you implying that the MGU-k is allowed to produce that amount of power? Or is this another way of saying that: of those 185; 160 is routed via the MGU-k and the rest goes to the ES?

[gruntguru]

They are Ringo's numbers not mine.
You can send 160 to the mguk, plus a tolerance - 5% I think.

[ringo]

No i found the ICE to be 800bhp with some experimentation with the air and fuel mix properties and increasing compression to 14.5:1 . This is after recent news of the combustion pressures being in the 300 bar region.

Those who have actual in lab experience may know if this is possible or not. But i think the engines can be anywhere from 615hp to 800hp. such is the difference that combustion strategy can make with 100kg/hr of fuel.

I could be wrong, but just using the little i know.

The MGUH should in theory be able to produce the limit set by the FIA which is 160hp.

[gruntguru]

No i found the ICE to be 800bhp . . . . .

In your previous post you said The ICE is around 40% brake thermal efficiency and the Self sustaining MGUH + ICE power is around 52%. That equates to 660hp ICE and 858 for MGUH + ICE.

[ringo]

Oh yes, that's correct. that was from a previous post.
Sorry for any confusion caused.

By the way guru, how do you calculate your thermal efficiency for the hybrid PU?

[gruntguru]

Sorry Ringo, I don't understand the question.

[wuzak]

Sorry Ringo, I don't understand the question.

I think he is asking about how you include the MGUK power in the calculation.

To my mind the only legitimate methods are to have ICE only (~45%, 750hp according to Cowell) and ICE plus MGUH->MGUK power (who knows how much that is?).

You cannot use the power of the MGUK when it is taking energy from the store, as that energy is not from the fuel being consumed at that time.

[gruntguru]

Thanks Wuzak and I agree with your answer.

General Note.
Everyone here seems to use "ICE" to refer to power from the crankshaft and I am happy to go along with that. In reality the term "Internal Combustion Engine" is any engine which uses air as both the oxygen source for combustion and the working fluid. ICE therefore refers to piston engines, Wankels, gas turbines, etc and compunded combinations of these. By that definition the ICE power would include crankshaft power AND any surplus power available from the turbine.

[wuzak]

Thanks Wuzak and I agree with your answer.

General Note.
Everyone here seems to use "ICE" to refer to power from the crankshaft and I am happy to go along with that. In reality the term "Internal Combustion Engine" is any engine which uses air as both the oxygen source for combustion and the working fluid. ICE therefore refers to piston engines, Wankels, gas turbines, etc and compunded combinations of these. By that definition the ICE power would include crankshaft power AND any surplus power available from the turbine.

If the turbine was geared directly to the crankshaft to supply that excess power then I would agree. But I think the electrical link and the possibility that the power is not being used to supplement the crankshaft power muddies the water s a bit.

[gruntguru]

For example consider a Linear Free Piston Generator. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free-pist ... _generator

The only output is electricity but it is still an ICE.

[wuzak]

For example consider a Linear Free Piston Generator. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free-pist ... _generator

The only output is electricity but it is still an ICE.

Is an electrical motor connected to the output pat of the ICE, especially one which is not dedicated to that generator?