Pirelli will take Bridgestone's place after 2010

[WhiteBlue]

don't know where bernie comes into this

I only know what AMuS wrote. I translate the respective sentences:

Bliebe nur noch Avon, die Slicks für historische Formel 1-Rennen liefern. Doch auch die Firma von Bernie Ecclestone hat nichts zu verschenken. Entwicklung findet nicht statt. Avon-Reifen wären steinhart. Die Rundenzeiten würden um drei Sekunden steigen.

This leaves Avon who supply slicks for historic Formula One races. But Bernie Ecclestone's company would not give out freebies. There would be no development and the Avon tyres would be rock hard. Estimated lap times would go up by 3 seconds.

AMuS have occasionally been wrong with some speculations but they do have pretty good sources within the FiA, the manufacturers and teams.

[donskar]

avon decided to divest itself of the tyre division back in the 90's , and it was purchased by cooper tire of the USA

don't know where bernie comes into this

This is my understanding as well. Source a recent issue of Motorsport (I think; I read lots of mags).

Whatever. I can not think of many things worse than ANOTHER Bernie company sinking its fangs into F1. Will that man NEVER die?!

[donskar]

According to Autosport (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/82982), "Cooper Avon" are now in the running.

The VERY worrisome parts are that:
1) the teams supoposedly have an "agreement in principle" with Michelin, yet . . .
2) "despite the teams being keen on the Michelin plans - which will include a switch to 18-inch wheels – sources claim that Bernie Ecclestone is not in favour of such a move, and is instead believed to be keen on a different tyre manufacturer getting involved."
3) " . . . Ecclestone is pushing for a deal with Cooper Avon"

I suppose I'm just hopelessly naive to think that Bernie does not need to make money on EVERY aspect of F1.

[mx_tifoso]

Aren't harder tyres what some people want? As it it'll decrease grip and improve overtaking, blablabla, etc?

[WhiteBlue]

It is an old negotiation trick of Bernie to suddenly in public talk to someone else shortly before a deal is closed. I would not exclude it that he talks to himself if there is no competition, happened with Spa and Turkey.

[Confused_Andy]

Aren't harder tyres what some people want? As it it'll decrease grip and improve overtaking, blablabla, etc?

Surely the teams want more mechanical grip and less aero as it'll make overtaking easier as there wont be as much turbulent air behind.

[WhiteBlue]

Avon to supply tyres in 2011?
19/04/2010
Mat Coch writes:

Reports indicate that a 'non-branded' supplier is the preferred option for the Formula One Teams Association, with Avon Cooper being touted as a likely solution.

Current tyre supplier Bridgestone Has announced its intention to withdraw from the sport at the end of the season, leaving the FIA to find a replacement. Bridgestone secured the exclusive contract in 2007 after the governing body put an end to the tyre war in the wake of the farcical 2005 United States Grand Prix, where Michelin-shod cars failed to participate after a string of failures during practice. Michelin failed to submit a tender and left the sport at the end of 2006.

Teams had initially hoped they'd be able to convince Bridgestone to stay in the sport, though they appear to have now admitted defeat and are looking to source another supplier.

Speaking at the weekend, Williams' Adam Parr revealed that FOTA has charged Bernie Ecclestone with identifying and securing a new tyre supplier, admitting that the teams not in favour of Michelin's intention to increase the wheel diameter from 13 inches to 18 inches. Such a change would see larger wheels with lower profile tyres which would change the handling and suspension characteristics of the cars dramatically. It's a move not popular with teams who would be forced to redesign their suspension layouts significantly.

Writing in the Sunday Times, F1 pundit and former driver Martin Brundle claims that Ecclestone is in favour of a non-branded supplier. "Michelin seem ready to step in, but only on their terms. They will charge £3m plus for a more limited tyre supply along with branding on the cars, and crucially, they want to supply product for 18 inch wheel rims, which are more relevant to their road and racing range."

"Bernie Ecclestone and some teams prefer a non-branded and much cheaper option, using a company such as Avon and sticking with the current wheels and tyre diameter."

A British company, Avon has been in business since 1904 and has a long association with motor sport.

It's believed FOTA will meet with Ecclestone as the teams seek to have a supplier identified and signed ahead of the Spanish Grand Prix in three weeks.

Speaking ahead of yesterday's Chinese Grand Prix, when asked about the tyre situation, Ecclestone replied; "we're dealing with it". Asked if he had a preferred supplier in mind, he added. "I don't mind".

The option of a non branded supply sounds very much like Bernie is behind the Avon bid. Which commercial tyre company would supply F1 and not use it as brand and product marketing opportunity? Only a company that exists for supplying specialties on commission and that needs no advertising. The story goes on. We still can't know which way they will jump, but jump they will.

[xpensive]

are you still sure that the Michelin 18" rims will remain the same tyre diameter, WB? Do you suspect jean Todt plays a role here, he should have some Michelin contacts since his days with Peugeot?

[WhiteBlue]

are you still sure that the Michelin 18" rims will remain the same tyre diameter, WB? Do you suspect jean Todt plays a role here, he should have some Michelin contacts since his days with Peugeot?

I'm pretty confident that Bernie will use whatever influence Todt can wield with a French company. But Bernie is doing the bidding here.

It is clear that two of Michelin's conditions would have to be met or bought off: Competition and 18 inch low profile. The teams have already said that they would somehow be able to live with the low profile so one assumes the competition is the sticking point. If Michelin are too greedy there F1 will go the Avon way.

Regarding tyre diameter I have no clue if that can be done. The suspension has to be redesigned in the case of 18 inch wheels anyway. So they can as well add some mm diameter to run with Le Mans diameters. On the other hand I would think that 17.5 inch wheels could also satisfy Michelin's requirements.

[Chaparral]

Michael Bulchitt from Goodyear US is reported as stating "we have been approached by the FIA to enter a tender as part supplier of premium grade Formula One tires to a number of participants in the 2011 season and beyond and are considering our position"

I thought Goodyear said years ago no more F1 - this is a bit of a left fielder considering Michelin and Avon will most possibly be two suppliers - an abundance of riches

[Jersey Tom]

Ah yes.. Mr. Bulchitt..

[lebesset]

I keep reading about avon being considered as the future tyre supplier , as a 'non branded tyre '

what does this mean exactly ? it is said that they will be at one third of the price michelin are demanding , and in existing sizes , which would save huge amounts of money in suspension redesign

but why non branded ? surely they would charge less if they had their name on the side , maybe as cooper tire which is largely unknown outside n.america

clearly the teams would prefer someone more recently in the F1 business , but I suspect that michelin are just flag flying like pirelli , not expecting to have any offer accepted

looks like bridgestone could have 4 very nice truck/workshops available for offers ; which reminds me , wonder what the ex brawn trailers fetched on Ebay , never thought to look

[MegaHurts]

I think if they are unbranded then they can make them as hard as FOTA may want and last for as few laps as FOTA may want without runing the brand. Drivers and teams can then blame the tires as much as they want without and negativity relected on Cooper/Avon.

Thats my guess anyway.

[WhiteBlue]

More news about Avon vs. Michelin

http://formula-1.updatesport.com/news/a ... /view.html?

Apr.29 (GMM) Formula one's tyre situation for 2011 is unlikely to be resolved by the forthcoming Spanish grand prix.

Ferrari team boss Stefano Domenicali, and McLaren and FOTA chief Martin Whitmarsh, said last week that with Bridgestone departing at the end of the year, the issue of tyres for 2011 should be agreed by Barcelona.

"I think we will know something more, I would say 100 per cent, by Barcelona" next weekend, Domenicali said before departing Shanghai.

But after a FOTA meeting on Wednesday, Williams' technical director Sam Michael said he felt a decision by Spain was now unlikely.

The teams alliance was earlier believed to have agreed in principle to be supplied by Michelin next year, but Avon has made a lower-cost proposal that is understood to be backed by Bernie Ecclestone and smaller teams.

The Italian marque Pirelli has also indicated interest in entering F1 next year, but the bulk of Wednesday's FOTA conversation centred on a choice between Michelin and Avon.

"Avon's a lot cheaper (than Michelin) but it's a less proven product although they've done plenty of highly competitive tyres," Michael is quoted as saying by the BBC.

"They (Avon) are a bigger unknown than Michelin because Michelin did it (F1) very recently. But there is a significant difference in cost and you are probably talking over three times the difference in cost to the teams," he added.

The Avon proposal seems to be the negotiation tool to get Michelin to drop the price, especially the competition demand which would cost teams dear in terms of testing cost and risk.

The unbranded Avon option was already mentioned by Pitpass ten days ago.

viewtopic.php?p=163317#p163317

There was also talk that Bernie could buy personnel and technology from Bridgestone and use Avon to produce unbranded tyres with Bridgestone technology. It is thought that this option would produce a fairly static product without much development.

[Just_a_fan]

There was also talk that Bernie could buy personnel and technology from Bridgestone and use Avon to produce unbranded tyres with Bridgestone technology. It is thought that this option would produce a fairly static product without much development.

This would be a bad thing...we need tyres that are hard enough not to generate acres of marbles off the racing line.

What we need is tyre development that allows F1 to get away from the warm-cheese tyres we have now that start to fall apart the moment they hit the track.

F1 with multiple useable lines through the corners is the way to get close racing in my view. Carrying on with the Bridgestone formula won't help that aim at all.

Oh, and Bernie in charge of tyres? He'll be charging them by the tyre and requiring at least three compounds are used per session given half the chance...