Red Bull RB6

[strad]

I take it your question is about the Pull Rod suspension?
So I assume you wonder why I say the Red Bull gets a greater proportion of it's downforce from the less ride height sensitive overbody aero than the others with their push rod systems that get more of their downforce fronm the more ride height sensitive underbody aero?
I'm confused because this fact is old news and was part of the pull rod vs push rod discussion back when.
Adrian is good, but he is also lucky. They were running the Pull-Rod set up before the new regulations and it allows...or so the experts that report on such things say, that """it allows for a aerodynamic map that works over a broader range of ride heights""".
The rockers are so low that it isn't ideal for the Double Diffuser BUT allows for great airflow to the rear wing..AND they make up for it to some extent with that step up gearbox.
I thought all this was old news.
I might still have a couple of old magazines still around that can explain it better than me, but basically as sometimes happens the change to no refueling and the silly parc ferme rules that won't let the teams adjust the cars played right into Red Bull and Adrian Neweys hands this time.

[strad]

Come on guys,,Webber went flying because of the largest safety concern in open wheel racing,,two wheels rotating at high speed coming into contact..ain't no math wiz but doesnt the second car, Webbers, speed double, or something like that, when the ride over like that?

[marcush.]

Come on guys,,Webber went flying because of the largest safety concern in open wheel racing,,two wheels rotating at high speed coming into contact..ain't no math wiz but doesnt the second car, Webbers, speed double, or something like that, when the ride over like that?

what is happening in that moment ? clearly the front cars rear tyre will introduce an upward movement ,but the front wheel of the following car will show downward movement ,unless you are hitting the brakes...will a simple touch make the front tyre climb the rear of the car you follow? to launch the car as we have seen you will need the flat floor as a lift generating device..

[strad]

All ya need is rubber to rubber

[marcush.]

All ya need is rubber to rubber

you did not drive bicycles in your youth or had no friends doing this at the same time... we made fun of running wheel to wheel on our trip to school quite often and never ever happened something like climbing of the wheel or anything ..and sure the tyres were good ol rubber..but maybe that does not count..we were having trouble to bring up the tyre temps ..too much graining..

-is this already off TOPIC ?? -

[myurr]

No one seems to have picked up on this on James Allen's blog:

One interesting observation is that Red Bull has a setting on the engine, whereby the ignition is retarded on the over run, which maintains exhaust gas pressure even when the driver lifts off the throttle. This maintains the performance of the blown diffuser and keeps the downforce up when it’s most needed. It’s not something you can do for more than a lap or two as it damages the engine, but it gives that vital fraction of a second which keeps Red Bull ahead of the rest in qualifying.

Could this be the secret to RB's Q3 pace? No doubt they have a quick car, but they always seem to pull out a bit more in Q3 and this provides a credible reason. They have a special engine map providing them with more downforce at critical times thanks to the exhaust blown diffuser, but they are only able to run this for a lap or two otherwise they'll damage the engine.

This would explain beautifully why Red Bull dominate Q3 but then fall back in the race. No doubt there are other factors, but I could believe that this was the largest factor involved.

[strad]

you did not drive bicycles in your youth or had no friends doing this at the same time

You're kidding right? You didn't have 900 hp driving the wheels nor were you going 170 mph.

[wesley123]

you did not drive bicycles in your youth or had no friends doing this at the same time

You're kidding right? You didn't have 900 hp driving the wheels nor were you going 170 mph.

nor did webber hav that

[strad]

This is a joke

[godlameroso]

I've noticed something peculiar about the RB6. I wonder if anyone else has noticed this. I was watching onboards of Valencia qualifying and I heard something strange, the RB6 sounds like it's scraping the ground while it's going fast. You would think it's normal as the downforce pushes the car to the ground, but for some reason the RB6 makes this scraping noise more than any other car on the grid, the only one that comes close is the Force India, but the RB6 makes the sound consistently especially through the last couple of high speed corners.

Just something that caught my attention.

[Italiano]

Because they slammed it to the ground. Low ride height.

[marcush.]

you did not drive bicycles in your youth or had no friends doing this at the same time

You're kidding right? You didn't have 900 hp driving the wheels nor were you going 170 mph.

it might be a bit fun but still the question remains what is really launching the car into this ?

the instant the two wheels touch the threads are obviously moving in opposite direction at roughly the same speed ...so in first instance the wheel of the following car is retarded by the
the leading car ..but what does it make climb? wouldn´t it be not more likely they touch and separateß

But looking at the video again it was NOT the wheels touching ,Webbers nosecone hit the reartyre and oviously this was perfectly shaped for launching him into the air..

[kalinka]

you did not drive bicycles in your youth or had no friends doing this at the same time

You're kidding right? You didn't have 900 hp driving the wheels nor were you going 170 mph.

it might be a bit fun but still the question remains what is really launching the car into this ?

the instant the two wheels touch the threads are obviously moving in opposite direction at roughly the same speed ...so in first instance the wheel of the following car is retarded by the
the leading car ..but what does it make climb? wouldn´t it be not more likely they touch and separateß

But looking at the video again it was NOT the wheels touching ,Webbers nosecone hit the reartyre and oviously this was perfectly shaped for launching him into the air..

When two high speed rotating wheels touch each other, you must consider the angular momentum of the entire wheel, not just the stickyness of the tyres. When two wheels touch like that, than in a split second the front wheel looses it's angular momentum (which is huge at that speeds ) as it has to stop. That angular momentum can not dissapear like that, so it's transferred to the car, and lifts the car's front up. The same force is acting on the rear whell of the front running car, but that force is acting downwards, and presses the rear of the car down for a split second, so no visible effect. You can try this by holding a simple bycicle wheel in hand. Spin it as fast you can , and then press it against the ground suddenly. It's a high probability that you can't hold the wheel in your hands, and the wheel gets free. It's because you have a few kilograms of mass rotating, and that generates angular momentum. One F1 wheel must be over 10kg if not more, and that mass has a huge momentum at 170kph. Much more than the weight of the car's front end. When the front end lifts up, than you have the high speed air caches the big area of the car's floor like a sail, and lift it further up and backwards.
You can see a nice example here, how the angular momentum can be transferred, even if the wheel can rotate free. It's just he sam effect, just happening in a split second.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dVwKE9yDqVo[/youtube]

[marcush.]

question:
wouldn`t the car go down in relation to the braked wheel as it does when you apply the brakes?

[gridwalker]

Launching is also caused by the simple concept known as the path of least resistance; Webber's car was closing on the Lotus at a very high rate, it couldn't go through the car so it had to go over, under, or around the sides.

The tyres have a lot of grip, preventing the car from naturally slewing around the Lotus, plus the high nose of the RB meant that there was no way that it was going to force itself underneath (which is unlikely in any event) leading to the car following the path that offered the least resistance to the car's considerable momentum.

The loss of front downforce when the car lost its wing would have also helped launch the car, as the sudden shift in downforce generation to the rear of the car would naturally help pitch the nose up. This would have been exascerbated as the sudden influx of air under the car would have increased the underfloor pressure and wiped out any remaining ground effect. From there, the Lotus would have simply acted as a ramp and the rest is history.

Any sudden reduction in downforce can lead to cars reliant on aerodynamic grip launching themselves; this is particularly true of open wheelers involved in a collision, but neither of these factors are essential for launching a car.

A famous example of a high downforce car launching itself solely because of a loss in aerodynamic efficiency is this Mercedes flipping at Le Mans : Note that it takes off when it reaches the crest of a hill, when the sudden change of incline forces more air underneath the car (creating a high pressure wave under the body) ...

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KqGq9OnH ... re=related[/youtube]