Virgin buys Wirth, joins Mclaren for technical partnership

[HampusA]

That was one team i would have liked to see in F1 actually. (epsilon)

[ESPImperium]

Id have loved to have seen Epsilon in F1, they have the facilities and infrustructure but not the finance sadly.

Id recon that there is only a handful of teams in lower formule that could make the step to F1; Epsilon are one, ART are another, other than that id recon that the only other team that could step up would be Carlin Motorsport could come to F1 from GP2/WSBR, im not sure if DAMS could step up to F1. Outside that id recon that Prodrive, but would be a would be the only other semi intrested party.

What this has shown is that without the right resources in terms of technology on and off track, resources in terms of facility and staff, and the finance to go racing in F1 you simply cannot make the strides that a team would require.

[HampusA]

Would love to see Prodrive aswell, i know they have built a streetcar but it´s a concept but apart from that, has Prodrive built and raced their own cars?

I only remember them for the 550 Maranello and the new Mini WRC car.

[marcush.]

...
Rinland is a manager more than anything else by his own admission.He is giving out directives but not working on the technical side really.
...

I don't know where Rinland said that marcush, looking at his track-record, it's obvious to me that he's very technical.

http://www.grandprix.com/gpe/cref-rinser.html

I just recently found a feature about him in RE or was it Racetech mag where he elaborated about his input with Brabham ,Sauber ,Fondmetal. He considered himself NOT as comparable to the work of Newey or such like and put himself to the manager role more than anything else.

[noname]

Would love to see Prodrive aswell, i know they have built a streetcar but it´s a concept but apart from that, has Prodrive built and raced their own cars?

I only remember them for the 550 Maranello and the new Mini WRC car.

And what about Subaru and BAR ?

Prodrive business is to run racing programs for manufacturers so that's why they are associated with other brands. As for F1 David Richards said 3 years ago they would be interested in entering this circus, but only if it will make sense for them.

[HampusA]

Like i said, "i only remember" Sorry for my lack of almighty knowledge about Prodrive

Ok sounds good, really hope we get some of these teams in F1, assuming they have everything they need.
Makes you wonder when teams like HRT gets a spot or the joke USF1... Americans just love their patriotism don´t they?

[wesley123]

Would love to see Prodrive aswell, i know they have built a streetcar but it´s a concept but apart from that, has Prodrive built and raced their own cars?

I only remember them for the 550 Maranello and the new Mini WRC car.

Then you really should get some knowledge. They ran the subaru WRC efford for like 20 years, recently they built the 2 aston Martin LMP cars, frst one based on a Lola tub, the second all by themselves. Also they ran the Aston Martin cars for like 5 years in the GT! and 2, and are still ran there by other teams.

[donskar]

...
Rinland is a manager more than anything else by his own admission.He is giving out directives but not working on the technical side really.
...

I don't know where Rinland said that marcush, looking at his track-record, it's obvious to me that he's very technical.

http://www.grandprix.com/gpe/cref-rinser.html

A fairly recent interview with Rinland in Race Car Engineering does not support marcush's view. In fact, Rinland says he reads about new technologies every day in order to keep mentally fresh and up to date -- technologies, not management techniques.

[donskar]

This is a good move for Virgin. Wirth has had several opportunities in F1 and has never distinguished himself. (Don't know if it's a good move for Symonds, though!) In addition, trying to compete without wind tunnel input is purposely handicapping the design effort. Why NOT use every tool available in order to design the best car possible? Seems to me an immature approach -- purposely flying in the face of established practices smacks of ego to me. Or no budget!

[marcush.]

even if some respected members of this forum are still wetting their pants laughing about USF1 the recent comments of Hurleys man trying to save the undertaking hint at they were really close to making it and in effect only contractual things prevented the Toyota deal to materialise and Cabarante paying the open invoices to Dallara was killing the project.Of course Anderson was useless.
Prodrive have lost interest in F1 methinks.

and donskar - the first sentence of the Race Engineering Interview:

"I don´t profess to be an innovator ,I´m more of a talent manager and innovations spotter..."

and in the last chapter :
Rinland sees his greatest contribution in making things happen -that´s the technical directors job today,he is a talent manager who gets in anbd delivers ,bringing the talent out of people....

I would call that a good manager not a designer.

And to come back on topic :Wirth has done a brilliant design with Simtek in the second year .The car was absolutely competitive even thogh they had no money and folded soon.
Wirth cannot be that dumb or incompetent .Just look at his achievements outside F1 ....

[xpensive]

...
and donskar - the first sentence of the Race Engineering Interview:

"I don´t profess to be an innovator ,I´m more of a talent manager and innovations spotter..."

and in the last chapter :
Rinland sees his greatest contribution in making things happen -that´s the technical directors job today,he is a talent manager who gets in anbd delivers ,bringing the talent out of people....

I would call that a good manager not a designer.

And to come back on topic :Wirth has done a brilliant design with Simtek in the second year .The car was absolutely competitive even thogh they had no money and folded soon.
Wirth cannot be that dumb or incompetent .Just look at his achievements outside F1 ....

It never struck you that a design engineering manager can be humble and polite, sharing credit with his confreres?

As for Wirth-less, he's not incompetent, he just don't have any credibility in F1, that's all.

[HampusA]

Would love to see Prodrive aswell, i know they have built a streetcar but it´s a concept but apart from that, has Prodrive built and raced their own cars?

I only remember them for the 550 Maranello and the new Mini WRC car.

Then you really should get some knowledge. They ran the subaru WRC efford for like 20 years, recently they built the 2 aston Martin LMP cars, frst one based on a Lola tub, the second all by themselves. Also they ran the Aston Martin cars for like 5 years in the GT! and 2, and are still ran there by other teams.

You right now that i think about it, i remember the Aston and the Subaru WRC.
But i´d rather save that space for some new information instead, thanks anyway!

[PlatinumZealot]

even if some respected members of this forum are still wetting their pants laughing about USF1 the recent comments of Hurleys man trying to save the undertaking hint at they were really close to making it and in effect only contractual things prevented the Toyota deal to materialise and Cabarante paying the open invoices to Dallara was killing the project.Of course Anderson was useless.
Prodrive have lost interest in F1 methinks.

and donskar - the first sentence of the Race Engineering Interview:

"I don´t profess to be an innovator ,I´m more of a talent manager and innovations spotter..."

and in the last chapter :
Rinland sees his greatest contribution in making things happen -that´s the technical directors job today,he is a talent manager who gets in anbd delivers ,bringing the talent out of people....

I would call that a good manager not a designer.

And to come back on topic :Wirth has done a brilliant design with Simtek in the second year .The car was absolutely competitive even thogh they had no money and folded soon.
Wirth cannot be that dumb or incompetent .Just look at his achievements outside F1 ....

That is similar to what Tony Fernandes claims he does.. and actually Tony does that very well. maybe the best of anybody in F1!

[Belatti]

So we know Wirths approach was wrong this time.

However I read that his approach was right with the LPM2, right?

Also I recall that the Simtek from 1995 was a car full of potential in the hands of Jos Verstappen. Wasnt that car a product of Wirth?

[PlatinumZealot]

Wirth's CFD approach is not wrong. Wirth himself is wrong! He just wasn't able to make it work for F1. When was the last time he did an F1 car?

Give Newey the same resuorces and you can bet your but that car would be mid-field in it's first season.