Red Bull overspend?

[Richard]

I think a pragmatic RRA would have to focus on volume of materials used in production because a big team's advantage comes from knocking out multiple options and variants.

Then it doesn't matter that Ferrari or McLaren have huge buying power for CF due to their road car programmes, while a back of grid team might have to pay cash on delivery. Equally it doesn't matter if Ferrari have 10 people wearing Gucci to making mouldings compared to a bloke in a shed for a back of grid team.

We know they limit the size of wind tunnel and analysis computer (both hardware and solver size).

Policing design resources would be a nightmare. You'll never be able to pin down where IP originated.

[Rob W]

How come I'm not surprised that controlled spending turns out not to be too controlled?

Amen. I said years ago when Mosely suggested this idea that there would be literally hundreds of ways teams could circumvent the spending cap if they wanted to.

Having certain areas not even audited seems like an obvious one.

[myurr]

Wouldn't the more practical system be to allow the teams to spend as they see fit but structure the formula so that there are diminishing returns the more they spend. A bit of normalisation in the prize money probably wouldn't go amiss, although there has to be a reward for winning...

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Set a high limit of say £150 million, the give a 4% increase year on year(or follow inflation for the year).

Books need to be open, at any point of the season and every part of every car needs a paper trail to a supplier that guarantees the cost. Suppliers themselves should also be privy to FIA inspection and so as there be no discreprancies.

Engine suppliers like Mercedes and Ferrari will get engine supplier limitiations so that a full scale engine war doesnt inflame the situation.

Very simple, as teams can already tell you how much each part of a car costs.

Just needs an FIA/FOTA appetite to enforce it, and enforce it like properly.

[Richard]

How can you compare costs? Ferrari "purchasing" damper IP from their road car R&D team will be much cheaper than Lotus having to develop something from scratch or purchase from an external supplier. The audit trail would be scary, completely impenetrable and prone to huge loopholes.

Far easier to limit volume of resources. Hence 47 people in the race team. You can pay then what you want in a whatever currency like, and some can be freelance consultants, while others are employed mechanics. Regardless of all that, it is easy for the FIA to count to 47. Similarly for the wind tunnel, summer shut down, and computing power.

They could limit the total weight of components at races and testing to prevent rich teams chasing diminishing returns.

[raymondu999]

That's something I alluded to as well. RBT and RBR is a beautifully perfect structure for RBR to do it. For example RBT employs Newey for say... x million. But they sell upgrades for the RB7 at 1 euro per upgrade. That would do up a lot of this.

[Mandrake]

That's something I alluded to as well. RBT and RBR is a beautifully perfect structure for RBR to do it. For example RBT employs Newey for say... x million. But they sell upgrades for the RB7 at 1 euro per upgrade. That would do up a lot of this.

I'm not entirely sure about business laws, but there is something telling you mustn't sell something below the price of production....if I remember correctly. Maybe somebody with more law education than me can shed some light onto this?

[raymondu999]

Brawn GP was purchased on 10GBP. Or 1GBP. I forget which

[bill shoe]

I think there is too much consideration of details here. The only way a spending/resource restriction could work is if the teams want it to. They do not want it to work so it doesn't.

Even Mercedes likes the current unenforceable RRA because it gives them excuses for performance shortcomings compared to the opposition.

I think the original Max Mosley spending proposal must have been terrifying to team principles because it left no room for performance excuses. I am not saying it was necessarily a good proposal, just a terrifying one.

[munudeges]

Until we see something concrete where action is going to be taken against Red Bull then I take with a pinch of salt where this is coming from. I also don't doubt the ability of any other team to, as Eddie Jordan said, "Hide people under desks" so it's all very fishy to me. In reality work at Red Bull will be farmed out to the Red Bull company to hide it, Mercedes GP to MHPE and Mercedes itself, Ferrari to Fiat and so on and so forth.

There's just no way you can control spending or 'resources' in the way that's being tried here anyway. There have been countless threads where people have said why.

[Pup]

The other way to look at it is that if someone got caught, then the system is working, at least on some level. Were the ship as leaky as is being argued, no one would have any more than a vague suspicion. The question is whether this rumor is based on fact or suspicion, or a little of each. Since it reportedly comes from the auditor, then it's probably based on fact, but I guess it's likely blown out of proportion.

The bigger question is if the rules have been breached, does the sport have the stomach to impose a meaningful penalty? I'm betting they don't, which makes all this nothing more than a bit of cost-saving theater. Even if RB spent as much as is alleged, it will be dealt with behind closed doors within FOTA and we'll never know what happened, or didn't.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Korean GP is slated for the teams to discuss the RRA.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/95250

Rumours swirling over Red Bull and now Mercedes (Willis/Costa appointments) means there is a bit iof an aire of paranoia at present.

Im wondering if the fans will get a CC or copy of anything drawn up to be implemented. Would be nice.....

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

So it appears McLaren and Ferrari are behind allegation of Red Bulls resource infractions. But as more information comes out, there appears to be some pretty telling anomalies, one of which is there technical staffing levels and the other their wind tunnel. I read this a few minutes ago and its interesting to say the least.

http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-re ... g-charges/

How would McLaren and Ferrari know that Red Bull are operating its wind tunnel for longer? And however archaic the RB wind tunnel is, it seems to be working far better than the more modern counterparts at McLaren and Ferrari.

Finally there is also a rumour that when the auditors had a look at the RB accounts, that half of the books were left unfilled or simply with labelled N/A(not applicable). So Marko saying

We have provided the information that we had to and nothing more

means the RRA has loopholes and that RB could possibly be submitting only the most basic of information.
Its not surprising that when these sort of things are doing the rounds that other teams become suspicious.

Already Mercedes are gearing their team up to a similar fashion, and FOTA seemingly unable to come to an agreeement, namely due to RB it has to be said, could this be the start of another arms race as well as the demise of FOTA?