Japanese GP 2005

[manchild]

No one here except you wasn’t telling anyone to stuff anything up, so please…!

Hiring Fisi for 2006 was a bad thing to do, not sacking him after several successive DNF in the beginning of the season was even worse. I agree that he is mediocrity compared to 3 drivers you mentioned.

Who had more luck was already discussed and if you check the statistics impartially you’ll see that 4 of 7 wins by Kimi were those when Alonso had problems or DNF – Monaco (tyres), Canada(DNF), Hungaroring(crash) and now Japan(penalty).

So, Kimi took more advantage from Alonso’s problems and had more luck by now.

Alonso was fastest this weekend and with better strategy. If it wasn’t for that shameful FIA penalty (shameful for FIA) Rainkonnen’s best result would be 3rd place.

Kimi outclassed Alonso, again?! Please be realistic… Whole season Kimi drives like the meaning of the championship is to set fastest lap or win single race no matter what overall result will be at the end of the season. Alonso showed impressive maturity and drover constantly, very Alain Prostish. Moves Kimi made in Japan are left in heavy shade of Alonso’s fearless overtaking of MS, Webber and overall performance like 16th to 8th in opening lap (not to mention that Kimi was using fresh engine while Alonso preserved the one from Brazil).

I’m not blaming Kimi for what happened to Alonso in Japan but without FIA penalty Kimi would finished 3rd.

Kimi set fastest lap without 7th gear (during last 7-8 laps)?! Where did you get that?! That is theoretically impossible! Perhaps he had problems with his 7th gear after he overtook Fisichella in the last lap but not before because he wouldn’t be able to catch anyone at the end of that start line strait.

[tetopelis]

manchild chill man...your talking like i insulted you personally
its okie if you want to be that fanatical..but i';m just statijng it as i see it...alot of what you said are excuses..if alonso was in that such of a great strategy as he was...why didn't he win?..the penalty he incured happened when kimi was behind him not in front of him...if so by all logical thinking alonso should've still had comfortable enough of a margin to go for the win...so i guess he drove his hats of.but i guess he left his brain at home..as i said..formula1 racing is not all about maximum attack..you need to know how to make the strategy work for you..i've seen it so many times this season..kimi has matured and he has made his strategy work for him...hahahahha and let me recap the race you talked about..monaco..kimi started from the front and lead from start to finish..how could have alonso even had a shout of what happened?..canada dnf..well that is alonso own silly mistake kimi started from seventh if i recall..hungary..again kimi started from 3rd if i recall rite and was fighting the micheal before taking the lead and going all the way to the lead, alonso wasn't even in contention he started from 6th or 8th or something like that..japan..sori to say the best man won...manchild you can say it is gifted wins due to these causes rite?...on 2 occasions i can rmbr rite kimi's car dnf'ed when he was clearly in the lead way ahead with and impressive car...san marino, and germany...one he gave it away by making a mistake hungororing...when again he had the better car..and you have to agree with me mclaren has had the out rite pace ever since san marino in comparison to renault..renault has been just trying to play catch up..yes renault had a better reliability record.
okie my mistake on the gearing thing..i tot it was that..so sorry if i made a mistake there humans do you know.
i'm not taking anything away from alonso he is a fantastic driver..but on this occasion kimi did a far better job..much more level headed...and you said that kimi went for the single wins rather then the overall picture...hmmmm..very interesting you say this when countless of times he has played strategy along with alonso..they both looked at the whole picture..alonso had better luck on his side..i said in one of my posts before...to be a champion you need to have great driving and strategising skills, a good car and luck..this time a round alonso had more of the luck..maybe next time its kimi's turn..but i rate kimi far better cos he has had experience with a terrible car and still got the best out of it..(look back the 2002, 2003, and 2004 season and how he faired in a not so great car)..alonso had only the experience of his rookie season in minardi.

[RH1300S]

Manchild is more chilled than you think..........it just does not seem so sometimes

[tetopelis]

and about the overtaking...i give it to alonso on that..fantastic move on schumi and 130R
but you seem to have forgot what kimi said:

KR: Yeah, I was behind them but unfortunately we had a slight problem with the gearing and seventh gear was a little bit too short and every now and then when I got really close I started to hit the rev limiter so it was very difficult to get past people but in the end the car started to get better and better all the time and we were able to catch up in the later part of the race.

and you said kimi thinks winning a race is everything about going and getting the fastest lap and winning a single race?
if i rmbr rite in monaco kimi told in the press conference and some point he backed off to preserve his car as he saw no point in blasting so fast after he had built up a healthy margin...and more then once he said that i think...hmmm...manchild..stop being so fanatical and read

[manchild]

manchild chill man...your talking like i insulted you personally...

I’m not insulted but I’m not telling other posters here what they should do and I don’t like being told what to do, simply as that. I could defend my self by saying that I think that you're fanatical but I won't do that.
…
Why didn't Alonso win? Hello!!! I'm not saying that he'd win the race I'm saying that Kimi wouldn’t finish in front of any of Renaults if FIA didn't committed that stupidity. Penalty that took him time and placed him in heavy traffic afterwards! Alonso was faster and had better strategy that was undermined by FIA!
…
You can't say that Kimi would win for sure in Monaco if Alonso's and Fisicella's tyres didn't have serious problems during whole race. Kimi won in Canada were Alonso retired where he was in the obvious lead - they had the superior car there. In Hungary Kimi won another one with Alonso's car crashed...
…
Both of them won several races thanks to problems of the other but you can't say that Kimi is the only victim just because he didn't win championship even though he had more lucky races than Alonso.

[jaslfc]

dont worry bout manchild.. he is a very emotional f1 supporter!! heehe.this forum we have alot of heated comments but its all good and do not aim to target people personally. its just that we agree or disagree with the comments.. like u are a mclaren supporter and i think u are abit more bias towards kimi and manchild is a renault supporter so naturally he is more towards alonso..
HONESTLY as a neutral we gotta give this race and drive of the day to kimi.. he did a good job. so abit of badluck for alonso in the sense of fia and maybe a bad call frm the pits.. so what!! alonso showed he still is a good driver by getting 3rd. and everybody gets a bad decision called against u(the fia thing)

[tetopelis]

yap i agree with you and i fully put up my hand and say that i am a mclaren and kimi fan...hehehehehe...so manchild no hard feelings.
but i do agree with everyone that alonso was hard done by with that decision from FIA..he clearly gave room to klien to get back his position and overtook him legally again...i guess the FIA didn't see that..abit bad luck for alonso

[manchild]

KR: Yeah, I was behind them but unfortunately we had a slight problem with the gearing and seventh gear was a little bit too short and every now and then when I got really close I started to hit the rev limiter so it was very difficult to get past people but in the end the car started to get better and better all the time and we were able to catch up in the later part of the race.

That was no technical problem. The team made mistake by assembling to short gearing for Suzuka. The gearbox worked perfectly as well as rev. limiter so nothing happened to Kimi's car that wasn't planned.

..and you said kimi thinks winning a race is everything about going and getting the fastest lap and winning a single race?
if i rmbr rite in monaco kimi told in the press conference and some point he backed off to preserve his car as he saw no point in blasting so fast after he had built up a healthy margin...and more then once he said that i think...hmmm...manchild..stop being so fanatical and read

His engine from Spain didn't blow up on Friday so he had to preserve it during the race in Monaco where no one was endangering him since both Renaults had tyre problems. That is not as typical for what I was saying as it was the race in Nurburgring where he was truly selfish and defined his own faith while everyone else started blowing out their frustration on Alonso almost as he was the blame for what was 100% Kimi&Mclaren cock-up including the many that followed.

...manchild..stop being so fanatical and read

Once again you're telling me what to do... Perhaps you're the fanatical one since you're trying to achieve something by favoring these "instructions" instead of arguments.

[Scuderia_Russ]

Am I the only person that thought Alonso's pass and repass of Klien was a bit shady anyway? Keeping his momentum then getting a tow straight away like that? Maybe the F.I.A. could look at that one and maybe say you have to complete a full lap before attempting to repass someone.

[manchild]

Am I the only person that thought Alonso's pass and repass of Klien was a bit shady anyway? Keeping his momentum then getting a tow straight away like that? Maybe the F.I.A. could look at that one and maybe say you have to complete a full lap before attempting to repass someone.

Ha! It was shady - Alonso was forced to get off the track because Klien blocked him. They were at least lined up which means that Klien wasn't in front of him when he went off.

[Steven]

i'm not taking anything away from alonso he is a fantastic driver..but on this occasion kimi did a far better job..much more level headed...and you said that kimi went for the single wins rather then the overall picture.

Well I also think Kimi would not have won the race if Alonso was not put back because of that penalty.
Both are really good drivers and they surprise me from time to time, but a better job at Japan? The only important things are Kimi's long first stint, Alonso's penalty and Kimi's better car. Quite simple

[Guest]

Ddidn't a similar incident occur a few years ago, during the USGP, with Montoya? JUan made a car change at the last second, he drove most of the race, only to learn that he wasn't in the "proper" car, and thus disqualified? Same thing, a very long, unacceptable difference in time between the infraction and the enforcement?
How many laps, how much time elapsed between the time Alonso got on the grass and made the illegal pass, and the time when he was told to give position to the car he had passed? On my opinion, too long. The stewards cannot be allowed such a long time betweeen infraction and enforcement.
Personally, I think that's one issue that has to be resolved inside Formula One. They need a full time core of stewards that travel with the local circus, instead of having local stewards attempt to make judgement calls.
As fas as the driver vs driver argument? I love it, it's eternal. This year, it's Alonso vs Kimi. Both very good drivers with totally opposite styles. It doesn't take an idiot to realize that in the last half of the season, Mclarens have been head and shoulders ahead of anyone in pace. And it shows in the results, Kimi has had an incredible second half to his season. But he has driven to either win or DNF, and that has happened. Of course, most times it was the car that failed him, not driver error. But Fernando drove a great season, he placed so many times on the podium, it was getting boring. And maybe that's the season in a sentence, that Kimi won when his car held up, and Alonso just finished very well, winning, or at least getting a podium finish to win the big prize, the title.

[tetopelis]

yup yup...perfect way to sum it up..i loved this season of f1..rather sad its coming to a close..2 fantastic drivers showed they are both really worthy of the crown..kimi and alonso..alonso won it this season..hopefully the battle rages on next season.(being a kimi fan hopefully he gets it next season...hehehe) and hopefully more drivers get into the fray. schumi making a comeback to battle kimi and alonso. montoya. but this leaves me to wonder..fisi is not in a very good position in renault after wat happen this season and in the last race...any chance he might be replaced?..if so who would be a good candidate for the second renault seat?

[Scuderia_Russ]

Look at all the incidents that were going on though, there was a hell of alot for the clerk of the course / stewards or whoever to deal with. As far as the original 'overtake' was concerned it's up to Alonso when overtaking for position, to do it cleanly. At the end of the day he cocked it up and ended up in front of Klien so what do you want?!

[DaveKillens]

Sorry, I was the guest in the previous post.
I think Kimi and Fernando are the two premier drivers in F1 right now, with Juan, Michael standing just to the side. Meanwhile, Button is slipping into a delusional belief he's better than his record shows. One more season, no wins. Almost a hundred GP starts for the pretender to the throne.
This season was exciting, with two very different cars with two very different drivers fighting for the title. Some fans may be comfortable slamming either Kimi or Fernando, but on my opinion, we saw two very good drivers fighting for the title in two completely different ways. I like them both, and I think both are very good.
Fans have always compared drivers, I recall arguing about drivers back in the 60's. The net is a wonderfuiul place to communicate, and with forums, there is a place for fans to voice their opinions. The last few years, with Shu's complete dominance, there was little reason to debate who was the better driver. But the stagnation is gone, and we can now enjoy a fresh breath of air in competition, and trust me, to see more than one premier driver, and to debate it, is a very good thing for racing.