Chinese GP 2005

jaslfc · Post 17 Oct 2005, 14:34

fisi did a good job holding kimi up in the opening few laps until the sc. i think its fair.. u guys always question ferrari when they do such a thing but renault does it is fine!! i think no matter who does it .. its fine coz they are a team and they want to ensure they win the race and take the const. champ. well done renault. but onli the part when they hold them up in the pits was wrong.. and he was punished so no big deal..

manchild · Post 17 Oct 2005, 15:42

On such wide circuit with so many places for overtaking it is not possible to hold back faster car.

joseff · Post 17 Oct 2005, 17:08

Well Barrichello managed to do it for the whole race...

manchild · Post 17 Oct 2005, 18:01

joseff wrote:Well Barrichello managed to do it for the whole race...

Not quite, Webber had team order not overtake but to wait for Barrichello's mistake as it was obvious that his Ferrari is in problems.

What I mentioned in my previous post concerns situation when faster car is behind the slower car and both cars functional (without problems).

f1.redbaron · Post 17 Oct 2005, 20:17

manchild wrote:On such wide circuit with so many places for overtaking it is not possible to hold back faster car.

I don't think that there are that many good overtaking places. The only really good one is Turn 14. Turn 6 doesn't look that bad either. Other than that, straight-line speed will help you during that long straigh between turns 13 and 14.

Why didn't Kimi and Juan pass Fisichella? Well, it was obvious that the two McLarens were just heavy with fuel. I believe that McLaren's strategy was to wait for the first round of the pit stops, where both McLarens would overtake Fisi. Then, running low on fuel, and Alonso with a heavier fuel load (after having pitted), both Kimi and Juan would've been able to close the distance, and possibly overtake him.

Unfortunately for them, it didn't work out like that, and McLaren lost the constructors' championship.

manchild · Post 17 Oct 2005, 23:01

But Kimi entered pits same time as Fisi. If Kimi was on heavy load than he'd save even more fuel under SC and pit in later. Same goes for Montoya.

joseff · Post 18 Oct 2005, 05:07

True, I don't think Kimi was heavy on fuel. If anything, Montoya was the fastest driver out there.

Hudsonhawk · Post 18 Oct 2005, 11:13

Manchild

You are just biased toward Renault bud !! If this was MS in this position or Ferrari doing what they did you would be annoyed !!

I refer to what gave fish the drive thru penalty when i say held up..... !!

manchild · Post 18 Oct 2005, 11:48

Sorry HH, I thought you had in mind driving on track.

Regarding that pit entry, is overtaking allowed once the drivers go off track into that pit entry?

If driver isn’t forced by regulations to go trough that area at certain speed and if overtaking is forbidden than Fisi was not to blame since he had chosen to enter the pits first. He could afford to be slow and being behind him was just bad luck for Kimi and Schuey.

Besides, his pit was occupied by Alonso and he had to slow down rather to choke pitlane or prevent cars behind Renault's garage to enter the pitlane after refueling.

BTW, you're right, I'm biased toward Renault

RH1300S · Post 18 Oct 2005, 12:03

Fisi was penalised for backing up the pack behind him. There has been a rule clarification that says you cannot back up the pack for more than 5 car lengths distance to the car ahead of you (exact wording I don't know - I think it refers to safety car conditions). Fisi created a bigger gap than this so that he could pit without parking up behind Alonso.

manchild · Post 18 Oct 2005, 12:30

That is what I had in mind – wouldn’t parking behind Alonso and jamming pitlane or preventing cars from the previous garage from leaving the pitstop be a worse crime? Fisi didn’t gain any advantage over Kimi or Schuey by driving slow.

jaslfc · Post 18 Oct 2005, 14:29

ahah.. u still a hypocrite.. fisi still backed up the pack and gave alonso a bigger cushion. fine fisi got penalise but still if it was a ferrari u would have nagged and complain.. pls manchild i enjoy all your post except your on going complain about ferrari but u nvr point out any mistakes renault does~~~

manchild · Post 18 Oct 2005, 15:46

Consider me as Renault’s lawyer…

Bottom line – how could have race control known that Fisi was deliberately slow?!

There is absolutely no way to prove that and I think that rules don’t mention such thing.
What if car stalls a bit in pitlane entry or if driver accidentally presses speed limiter before it is necessary? How can race control distinguish those situations? He wasn’t zigzagging and that is the only prohibited thing that could be related to such situation.

Second thing - it happened while SC was on track and Fisi was punished for being too slow when no overtaking is allowed at any part of the track!

I’m not saying that Fisi didn’t slow down I’m just saying that it was a loophole he took advantage of.

johny · Post 18 Oct 2005, 15:50

although i'm a renault fan, yes after kimi slowing down at the entry of the pits fia sayd that if someone do that he'll be penalised. Fisi had to slowdown because alonso was on pits and he get the penalisation, no problem about that

Principessa · Post 18 Oct 2005, 17:31

jaslfc wrote:ahah.. u still a hypocrite.. fisi still backed up the pack and gave alonso a bigger cushion. fine fisi got penalise but still if it was a ferrari u would have nagged and complain.. pls manchild i enjoy all your post except your on going complain about ferrari but u nvr point out any mistakes renault does~~~

If someone is right you have to be fair and say he's right...not keep an endless discussion...that's what I think. Renault fan or no Renault fan, when they're wrong you have to admit it, same goes for Ferrari fans, McLaren fans.....

Give each other some credit on the Forum and don't say the same thing 5 times to prove you're right.