DC calls it like it is

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DaveKillens
DaveKillens
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Joined: 20 Jan 2005, 04:02

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A little off topic, but I wonder if McLaren will change their qualifying strategy. Last year, I recall seeing Ferrari using two compete teams to service each car during the qualifying sessions. I wonder if it's still allowed, and whether the advantages of allowing each driver independance from each other is worth the disadvantages.

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Ray
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mcdenife wrote:Ray wrote:
I think Ferrari not fueling Massa was more of a mistake really. Alonso didn't go because he wanted to hold up Hamilton. He was intent on purposefully stopping Hamilton from completing qualifying to the best of his ability, unlike Ferrari who screwed up and immediately rectified the situation. It's not like that screw up directly benefited Raikkonen.
I think Belati's point is if Alonso screwed up, why punish his team. DC is saying in not so many words, that the punishment implies it was the team (Mclaren) that screwed up. That being the case, why wasnt Ferrari punished for screwing up Massa quali (mistake or not)?
Because it was a mistake, not intentional!!!! Mistakes are not to be punished, they are to be learned from. Besides, I don't listen to DC very closely after he boldfaced lied about his quali actions in Monaco.

mcdenife
mcdenife
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Ray wrote:
Because it was a mistake, not intentional!!!! Mistakes are not to be punished, they are to be learned from. Besides, I don't listen to DC very closely after he boldfaced lied about his quali actions in Monaco.
So are you saying Mclaren were punished because they 'intentionally' screwed up Lewis' quali then??
Long experience has taught me this about the status of mankind with regards to matters requiring thought. The less people know and understand about them, the more positively they attempt to argue concerning them; while on the other hand, to know and understand a multitude of things renders men cautious in passing judgement upon anything new. - Galileo..

The noblest of dogs is the hot dog. It feeds the hand that bites it.

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Ray
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No no no. I must have said it wrong. McLaren shouldn't have been punished as a team. The team didn't do anything really, except control thier drivers like they should. Ferrari made a complete mistake, so they shouldn't be pounished for it to make it "fair", or "equal" to McLarens punishment. That's what I meant.

Plus Hamilton should be duly punished by the team for disobeying orders.

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checkered
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Joined: 02 Mar 2007, 14:32

Re: DC calls it like it is

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Rob W wrote:Love or loathe his racing you've got to give DC credit that he is an intelligent guy who knows the inside workings of F1 better than most.

His comment about the need for F1 to be more consistent applying penalties is very astute. http://www.f1technical.net/news/6731

Any thoughts on this? ...
To me it seems that Coulthard

is mainly critical of too few details of the rationale of the punishments being made public (read the FIA release, it doesn't specify the grounds for the stewards' stated misgivings). He doesn't challenge the "verdict" itself directly and also maintains that the permanent steward is very well informed on F1 and the personalities therein. Basically I read DC's statement as a hypothesis of sorts: The stewards might've felt that releasing more information could've hurt a larger, unspecified, interest and thus they decided to be tight lipped as a result. That's why other teams and drivers can't quite perceive how this case reflects on them as a possible precedent. That's why the F1 audience found the decision somewhat undecipherable. He questions this approach in rather subdued tones, an intelligent person as he is ... and knowing that these lines are to be treaded gently.

Belatti
Belatti
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Coulthard ended the conversation saying: "A pretty fundamental misunderstanding. I think it's a conspiracy to favour Kimi. Good luck."
I was in favour of DC (read the thread above...)

But now I think that he is pissing out of the WC
"You need great passion, because everything you do with great pleasure, you do well." -Juan Manuel Fangio

"I have no idols. I admire work, dedication and competence." -Ayrton Senna

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Scuderia_Russ
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If I was D.C. I would concentrate on my own miserable season and start worrying about everyone else when I'm fighting for wins. (again)
"Whether you think you can or can't, either way you are right."
-Henry Ford-

allan
allan
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Looks like David is learning from his team mate, Mark....
Those guys just dont know how to mind their own busiess. Again, it's better to let people think u are a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt....

mrmr
mrmr
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I think the tone of his comments were a bit mocking and only used to point out the absurdity of the stewards "meddling" in the McLaren hic up in Hungary. He is not saying seriously that Ferrari held up Masa, but that it can't be determined from the outside. I think McLaren will get their points back; winning their appeal.

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Rob W
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Belatti wrote:
Coulthard ended the conversation saying: "A pretty fundamental misunderstanding. I think it's a conspiracy to favour Kimi. Good luck."
I was in favour of DC (read the thread above...)
I thought his comment was definitely made in humour or an attempt to get his sound-bite into every bit of media - which it has. He seemed to be chopping Massa off when he jumped to defend his team as he does so often (and rightly so, they pay him lots of money to be a good boy :P)

It will irk some but his basic point is that forgetting to put fuel in a car is almost beyond likelihood in F1 surely. (except when the fuel system is broken as has happened a few times before during races)

Rob W

allan
allan
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i see ur point Rob W. However, DC's comments are absolutely pointless... Why would ferrari do that? why would they lose so many constructor's points just to support kimi? and why to support kimi in first place???
This just doesnt make any sense....

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Rob W
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allan wrote:However, DC's comments are absolutely pointless... Why would ferrari do that? why would they lose so many constructor's points just to support kimi? and why to support kimi in first place???
DC was trying to get PR - and he got it, lots of it. If the car he's driving can't perform he is still good PR because when he talks, people listen. People know his name and respect him (worthy or not isn't the issue).

Ferrari do have a reason to support Kimi over Massa. He is much better PR for Ferrari. People know his name globally far far more than Massa's. Having a champion is one thing, but having a champion who tons of people go "who?" is not nearly as good.

Likewise, the McLaren vs Massa 'story' is not even news compared to a "Kimi vs Alonso" story or a "Kimi leaves McLaren and beats them" or "World Champ delivers McLaren the wins that Kimi couldn't" story.

It really is all about the PR value and Kimi beats Massa hands down in that respect no matter what.

Rob W

modbaraban
modbaraban
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Rob W wrote:Ferrari do have a reason to support Kimi over Massa. He is much better PR for Ferrari....

Rob W
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Belatti
Belatti
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I get Rob W point... its allright

People, don´t forget Coulthard was in McLaren for a while and he knows the guys there... I don´t know if maybe he is doing a "favour" to them trying to get Massa nervous about his situation in Ferrari...
"You need great passion, because everything you do with great pleasure, you do well." -Juan Manuel Fangio

"I have no idols. I admire work, dedication and competence." -Ayrton Senna

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checkered
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Rob W wrote:DC was trying to get PR - and he got it, lots of it. If the car he's driving can't perform he is still good PR because when he talks, people listen. People know his name and respect him (worthy or not isn't the issue).

Ferrari do have a reason to support Kimi over Massa. He is much better PR for Ferrari. People know his name globally far far more than Massa's. Having a champion is one thing, but having a champion who tons of people go "who?" is not nearly as good.

Likewise, the McLaren vs Massa 'story' is not even news compared to a "Kimi vs Alonso" story or a "Kimi leaves McLaren and beats them" or "World Champ delivers McLaren the wins that Kimi couldn't" story.

It really is all about the PR value and Kimi beats Massa hands down in that respect no matter what.

Rob W
While I agree

that DC couldn't have been unaware of the PR aspect of his statement, try as I might I can't quite "get" the latter part of your statement. Funny, though, that after adding "fuel to the fire" David's vehicle dipensed some very spectacular flames after a leak. But ...

... WDCs, whoever becomes one, have the highest profile among the drivers in Formula One. Certain drivers have calculable "brand value", but that is very much a variable rather than a constant. In Ferrari's case especially, the overall brand is far more dominant now than in the days of Schumi and even then the team's and the driver's fan bases were very divergent (which was actually very lucrative for Michael, working "two markets"). It's a complex picture, I admit, but I would say that the victories that Kimi and Felipe can deliver outweigh any other consideration for their team - hands down. Everything else reflects on that. I hope I'm not being too naïve about this.

On the subject of quali fuel strategy between two drivers of the team, Raikkonen said something interesting recently on an Autosport interview(link) :
Q. Ron Dennis revealed to the press in Hungary that McLaren have a definitive policy about which driver per race is allowed to go for the extra lap in Q3. What is the Ferrari situation, and do you think it is necessary to make that decision?

KR: For sure it helps if you can do an extra lap, but we have some rules about who is going to get it. It depends on many other things, so it is not so clear. It is not like we can decide it before qualifying.

For sure usually we try to do it with whoever has the better chance. Like we saw we thought it would be difficult to get it at the last race but even with all the things that happened there we were able to get it.

It is really very difficult to say, you have it this time and I'll have it next time, because anything can happen. You might miss it, and for sure there is a chance to have both of the cars make the extra lap.
More than commenting on solely his own team's approach, he seems to suggest that either there's something wrong with McLaren's Q3 fuel strategy to begin with or perhaps that he believes McLaren has had to adopt a less than optimal strategy for the quali because of the situation with their drivers.