Power of current F1 Engines?

[MattF1]

Both sound fantastic in completely different ways, in my opinion. The V10s have a lower, slightly rougher "growl", while the V8s have a high-pitched angry scream - one which was better in the '06 unrestricted V8s, though, in my opinion.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=vOPT0ylCcdk

That would sound so much better without TC.

[Scotracer]

The frequency (or Pitch) is dependant on ignition strokes/second in a car.

V10 @ 19,000rpm = 3166.67 cycles/second = 791.67 ignition strokes/second
V8 @ 19,000rpm = 2533.33 cycles/second = 633.33 ignition strokes/second

Even if the V8 revved to 21,000rpm it would still only be 2800 cycles/second

The V10s are higher pitched and as someone who's attended many GP's in both eras I concur with my own analysis (which is always a good thing!)

However, I believe on the interior shots the V8s sound higher pitched due to the harmonic distortion the increased vibrations cause.

Edit: artithmetic stupidity.

[ISLAMATRON]

V8 @ 19K rpm = 1266.67 ignition events per sec
V10 @ 19K rpm = 1583.33 ignition events per sec

but V10's didnt go 19K rpms

and dont forget the powerband of the V8's is higher in the revband.

The V8's are clearly a higher pitch noise. HAvent seen them that much in person, but I've experienced both at the USGP, and that was the longerst straight on the calender.

[Scotracer]

I don't understand how you come to that conclusion. The V10s did exceed 19,000rpm and first did it in 2001 at Monza in the BMW Williams.

Evidence:

Ø 1,950 CAD drawings were made for this engine
Ø Output of the BMW P83 is over 900 bhp.
Ø Maximum engine speed is 19,200 rpm.
Ø In a race, engine speed is limited to 19,000 rpm.
Ø Idle speed is 4,000 rpm.
Ø The engine weighs less than 90 kilograms.
Ø The air intake volume is 1,995 cubic metres per hour.
Ø Maximum piston acceleration is 10,000g.
Ø Piston speed peaks at 40 metres per second and averages 25 metres per second.
Ø Exhaust temperatures of up to 950 degrees are reached.
Ø Maximum air temperature in the pneumatic system is 250 degrees.
Ø The engine block and cylinder head are made of cast aluminium and are manufactured at the BMW Formula One foundry in Landshut using a special thin-wall casting method.

http://scarbsf1.com/BMW_P83/index.html

That's the 2003 BMW engine. And scarbs is a writer for Racecar engineering magazine so I trust him.

[timbo]

Yeah, V10 of 2004-2005 were pinnacle of F1 powerplants. Turbos exceeded them in qualy trim, but lasted only few laps and had not very driveable power curve.

I heard a report that Honda reached 1000 hp somewhere in 2005? Was it true?

[Scotracer]

Yeah, V10 of 2004-2005 were pinnacle of F1 powerplants. Turbos exceeded them in qualy trim, but lasted only few laps and had not very driveable power curve.

I heard a report that Honda reached 1000 hp somewhere in 2005? Was it true?

Honda developed a one-off Suzuka 2005 special that developed 980BHP on the dyno.

[ISLAMATRON]

The frequency (or Pitch) is dependant on ignition strokes/second in a car.

V10 @ 19,000rpm = 3166.67 cycles/second = 791.67 ignition strokes/second
V8 @ 19,000rpm = 2533.33 cycles/second = 633.33 ignition strokes/second

Even if the V8 revved to 21,000rpm it would still only be 2800 cycles/second

The V10s are higher pitched and as someone who's attended many GP's in both eras I concur with my own analysis (which is always a good thing!)

However, I believe on the interior shots the V8s sound higher pitched due to the harmonic distortion the increased vibrations cause.

Edit: artithmetic stupidity.

Wrong again on the ignition events buddy... see my numbers if you want the right ones.

[Scotracer]

Either way, they are out by the same factor and my point is still valid as the V10s did go over 19,000rpm.

[ISLAMATRON]

Either way, they are out by the same factor and my point is still valid as the V10s did go over 19,000rpm.

They may very well have, I just dont remember that, V8's are still higher pitch.

[shotzski]

Back in '05, top teams' engines reached 20-21k rpm.

[ackzsel]

They may very well have, I just dont remember that, V8's are still higher pitch.

Could you point out why you think that? I've been to the German GP in '02, '03, '04 and '05 and I really do think that the V10 was screaming much higher. I didn't do any measurements and I didn't do any calculations but that's just based on what I heard standing next to the track.

[Miguel]

Back in '05, top teams' engines reached 20-21k rpm.

On the spanish TV, Gonzalo Serrano spent the whole 2005 season asking Pedro Mtz de la Rosa how fast the Mercedes really revved. And I mean every single race. In the chinese podium, which was the last race the Mercedes V10 did, Pedro was allowed to say that shifts in race trim were done at 18700 rpm. Note that this is on a two-race engine.

Regarding the 19k limit, everybody was raving about the 2003 German GP, or more exactly about the BMW engine. All rumours said that Montoya was indeed shifting at 19k or higher. Reading scarbs' note makes me feel quite confident with that figure.

And regarding the volume, I've attended the spanish GP in 2002, 2003 and 2004. I feel I was badly treated that year, so decided that I wouldn't be back at montmelo. Anyway, the first time you go to the circuit you can't believe how loud the cars are. I mean, I went walking from the railway station during the saturday free practice and I could hear the screaming engines from so far away... Even on TV, the V8s sound worse. I haven't heard them in person, but the impression I get on the TV is that they are less balanced, and with a slightly less acute tone.

I'll repeat it one more time for those who haven't experienced it: the first time you hear an F1 is amazing. It's so loud, so powerful, you never forget it. The only thing comparable to the sound of an F1 is their cornering speed.

[Scotracer]

=D> @ Miguel

You are spot-on. V10 F1 cars were the all-time best sounding things ever. I mean, out of everything. I pray to all relevant Gods that the FIA mandate their return [-o<

I'm just so glad I got to go to 2 F1 races during the V10 era (2002 Magny-Cours, 2004 Silverstone). I remember almost crying during first Practice for Magny-Cours '02 when Alex Yoong (of all people!) came screaming out of the pits in the Minardi at 11:01am. I will never forget it.

The V8s are an abomination in my opinion.

[lexicon5]

I'll repeat it one more time for those who haven't experienced it: the first time you hear an F1 is amazing. It's so loud, so powerful, you never forget it. The only thing comparable to the sound of an F1 is their cornering speed.

Absolutely concur. I got to see the V10s at Indy...then 3 years later the V8s.
The sound was absolutely UNBELIEVABLE. There is nothing TV can do to give you the true impression of the sound. The db are SO high, you'd sue to have your speakers replaced and then to pay for your hearing loss.
Nothing can prepare you for it either. I have been a live sound engineer for the better part of 34 years....I have NEVER heard ANYTHING like an F1 engine....EVER. American NASCAR V8s with the cast iron blocks etc sound like they are about to fly apart at 10,000 RPM...like you should run away and hide behind something bullet proof. An F1 engine at 19,000 sounds like....victory....the two cannot be further apart in terms of sound. Plus an American racing V8 has a stroke that is nearly twice as long and the pistons are about 3 times the size of an F1 engine.
F1 headers are all hand made custom length tubes...the NASCAR headers not so finely engineered and they are about 4 times as long as F1 exhaust. The sounds you hear are all affected by many things. Tube length, the type of metal etc...
Straight pipes sound different than those with turns, stainless steel sounds different than steel, diameter also changes it.

If you ever saw the first year Scott Speed raced for STR, they were in V10s that were RPM and air intake restricted. I could close my eyes at Indy and tell you when a STR went by. They were that different. As far as pitch...you'd need a pretty accurate spectrum analyzer that could handle the db...they were close to each other in terms of frequency range.

[guy_smiley]

i think the v10's are louder and have a higher pitch, so i agree with everyone who feels that way. im pretty sure the v10's hit 20,000 rpm before their end, so i agree with that as well.

but as for the actual sound? well, you guessed it, the v10's. pure mechanical music, absolutely beautiful. makes me cry
damn the fia for changing the regs!!