optimising kers usage

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
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ISLAMATRON
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Joined: 01 Oct 2008, 18:29

Re: optimising kers usage

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pipex wrote:We are clearly seeing that KERS in its actual form is pretty useless. I think that this is due to the way the rules were created by the FIA. If KERS is that important to give F1 green credentials why not create a working group with specialists in energy recovery systems, like the OWG. In this working group, experts of each F1 team can discuss what needs to be done in terms of ruling to make a useful KERS, for example defining the maximum energy, when the energy needs to be released, and other parameters to make the system application successful.
We already know that the systems in real cars are much more complex than what is implemented in F1. I think that the push-to-pass application is not too relevant in the real world, so why not use it to reduce fuel comsumption?.
Another point i want to make is that the FIA indecision to make the system compulsory is what is making us looking at the system as useless. If the system was compulsory for each race and each team, we would be looking at KERS as a performance differentiator. In fact, nearly every new rule makes the cars slower, but we don't see that new rules as having a big new "negative" factor because all the cars are subjected to the same set of them. Limiting the energy capability also reduce the effectiveness of the designs.
None of those were decisions were made by the FIA, they were all made by the teams, specifically the big teams. If/When the FIA opens up the regs for KERs you will only then see how big a factor it can be.

Passenger cars systems are more complex in programming only... and that is because the FIA wants the KERs to be engaged only by the driver and rightly so. The power to weight of the F1 MGU's are unmatched as are the specifics of the batteries used... they are both cutting edge technology.

pipex
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Re: optimising kers usage

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ISLAMATRON wrote: Passenger cars systems are more complex in programming only... and that is because the FIA wants the KERs to be engaged only by the driver and rightly so. The power to weight of the F1 MGU's are unmatched as are the specifics of the batteries used... they are both cutting edge technology.
And that is in my opinion one of the factors that castrate the current application.
"We will have to wait and see".

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ISLAMATRON
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Re: optimising kers usage

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pipex wrote:
ISLAMATRON wrote: Passenger cars systems are more complex in programming only... and that is because the FIA wants the KERs to be engaged only by the driver and rightly so. The power to weight of the F1 MGU's are unmatched as are the specifics of the batteries used... they are both cutting edge technology.
And that is in my opinion one of the factors that castrate the current application.
You would rather the KERS output be computer controlled? I like that the drivers have to choose & pick when to use it. So much of the shifting workload has been taken out of the driver's hands that its good for them to be a little busier in the cockpit.

Since the input & ouput are tightly regulated the only competitive aspects of KERS right now is weight(where BMW seems to be suffering) & cooling(where Ferrari seems to be suffering.

But if you consider the ever escalating speeds at which these cars race you must admit that the engine power must be dropped before the KERS allowed output can be significantly increased.

This summer the FIA should have dropped the Rev limit to 16K rpm rather than 18... that would have significantly reduced the engine power(and increased lifespan) and allowed KERS to be ramped up to provide a real performance differentiator.

But again remember it was the teams that have severely limited KERS(even making it optional this year), not the FIA... MAd MAx is trying to increase it power output for the coming years and hopefully it will have a bigger role... especially with a refueling ban next year.

jamsbong
jamsbong
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Joined: 13 May 2007, 05:00

Re: optimising kers usage

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Droping Revs is not necessary a good idea. Not only does the engine looses power, It looses its personality. One of the reasons why F1 is sexy is because of the screaming noise. Personally, I don't want to loose anymore REV.

Freeing up the limits of KERS is the way to go. Whatever FOTA or FIA rules made were rubbish. leave the 80HP intact and allow 20 secs/lap of usage. That will make a difference.

pipex
pipex
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Re: optimising kers usage

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ISLAMATRON wrote:You would rather the KERS output be computer controlled? (snip)
Since the input & ouput are tightly regulated the only competitive aspects of KERS right now is weight(where BMW seems to be suffering) & cooling(where Ferrari seems to be suffering.
(snip)
But if you consider the ever escalating speeds at which these cars race you must admit that the engine power must be dropped before the KERS allowed output can be significantly increased.
(snip)
But again remember it was the teams that have severely limited KERS(even making it optional this year), not the FIA... MAd MAx is trying to increase it power output for the coming years and hopefully it will have a bigger role... especially with a refueling ban next year.
Yup, i love computers :D
But seriously, i understand your point.

What i wanted to say is the rules are the limiting factor of the system, and i think that we somewhat agree. If the rules were different, who has the best system will already have some advantage.

Thanks for reminding me that the FOTA made the limitation of the KERS. :)
I think that a balance between the driver and the control could be made, but how to policy that can be difficult. As you said, maybe the refueling ban can make a difference.
"We will have to wait and see".

pipex
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Re: optimising kers usage

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"If we're going to proliferate KERS we are probably going to have to skew a little bit towards it," said Whitmarsh. "We've had to fight to be on the weight and that has cost us a lot of money, so maybe you can save some money by increasing minimum weights.

"You would think we would increase the amount of energy and the power you can use with your KERS system at the moment but none of those things are going to be supported by the majority so we are going to have to be pragmatic."
Complete article here:
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/74936
"We will have to wait and see".

ss_collins
ss_collins
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Joined: 31 Oct 2006, 15:59

Re: optimising kers usage

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A set of KERS info links which may be of use

Basics of KERS
http://www.racecar-engineering.com/...kers-works.html

The Bosch F1 KERS and more advance info on F1 KERS
http://www.racecar-engineering.com/...es-modular.html

Q&A with Renault F1 on KERS
http://www.racecar-engineering.com/...of-f1-kers.html

Williams flywheel KERS
http://www.racecar-engineering.com/...-explained.html

The flybrid - flywheel KERS
http://www.racecar-engineering.com/...rs-flybrid.html

Hope they all help - think the Bosch one is the most relevant - you must not dicount the charge rate and cooling demands

Nealio
Nealio
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Joined: 03 Feb 2009, 18:35

Re: optimising kers usage

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From the races run so far this year Brawn has best 'optimized' kers usage!