Lola back to F1?

Post here all non technical related topics about Formula One. This includes race results, discussions, testing analysis etc. TV coverage and other personal questions should be in Off topic chat.
User avatar
ISLAMATRON
0
Joined: 01 Oct 2008, 18:29

Re: Lola back to F1?

Post

maybe your tin foil hat fell off or needs readjustment. There is no spec chassis on the horizen just like there is no spec engine either. Cosworth is developing an engine for whatever teams wants them, if you dont want them then use whichever you wish... nothing spec about that.

Spec is when the FIA hands out the SECU's, and we know why they did that(to ban TC) and most agree it was a good decision. Neither customer cars nor spec cars are in the immediate future of F1.

xpensive
xpensive
214
Joined: 22 Nov 2008, 18:06
Location: Somewhere in Scandinavia

Re: Lola back to F1?

Post

I saw a recently taken picture of David Richards on an F1 news-site today, which made me wonder if he could become the only man in the pit-lane in more desperate need of a hair-cut than MrE himself?
"I spent most of my money on wine and women...I wasted the rest"

DaveKillens
DaveKillens
34
Joined: 20 Jan 2005, 04:02

Re: Lola back to F1?

Post

I never thought I would be one to spout conspircay theories to others. It's just that right now, that is my opinion. ISLAMATRON, your opinion and comments are appropriate, right now I might look like a nutcase. But as I posted earlier, I hope I'm wrong and Lola competes as a team.
Racing should be decided on the track, not the court room.

User avatar
ISLAMATRON
0
Joined: 01 Oct 2008, 18:29

Re: Lola back to F1?

Post

DaveKillens wrote:I never thought I would be one to spout conspircay theories to others. It's just that right now, that is my opinion. ISLAMATRON, your opinion and comments are appropriate, right now I might look like a nutcase. But as I posted earlier, I hope I'm wrong and Lola competes as a team.
All the crazy things going have all types of people spouting all types of conspiracy theories these days. Max may be mad on his cost cutting crusade(as he should be in today's economy) but i dont see him going as far as mandating a spec chassis.

But even if the 3 new teams ran the same chassis & cosworth engine combos I'd be happy to have a full grid again.
.. and 6 new drivers to show us what they can do.

xpensive
xpensive
214
Joined: 22 Nov 2008, 18:06
Location: Somewhere in Scandinavia

Re: Lola back to F1?

Post

I find DK's ponderings highly appropriate, when it's obvoius that MrM's never-ending power-hunger has sent F1 on a political-roller-coaster ride, which has no telling of where to end.

Moral fingerpointing of costly wheel-nuts with one hand, while sending the teams on a symblic "green" spending-spree on KERS with the other. Failing to make an early call on the diffusers with the obvious intention to upset FOTA, which has created yet another spending-frenzy in the wind-tunnels, searching for aerodynamic perfection to new interpretations.

On top of the above, the madman is determined to destroy everthing that remotely reminds him of Ron Dennis at any cost, when he is convinced that the SM-thing of last year was a McLaren orchestrated conspiracy.

In this context, I agree with DK that anything can be expected, when the man is obviously off his rockers.
"I spent most of my money on wine and women...I wasted the rest"

donskar
donskar
2
Joined: 03 Feb 2007, 16:41
Location: Cardboard box, end of Boulevard of Broken Dreams

Re: Lola back to F1?

Post

DaveKillens wrote:Image

I went to the Lola website http://www.lolacars.com/ and carefully read their press release concerning their potential involvement in Formula One. While my personal wish is for them to compete as a team, careful examination of the wording causes me concern. Throughout the entire press release http://www.lolacars.com/newsstory.asp?NewsId=37 There was constant reference about them supplying a "car". Please note, no mention at all about a "team", but just the reference to "car". Here's an excerpt.

“The announcement that Formula One™ teams may opt for a prudent, financially responsible ‘cost capped’ regime from 2010 has resulted in us deciding to fully evaluate the opportunity to develop a car to compete in the FIA Formula One World Championship™,” said Martin Birrane, Executive Chairman of Lola Group.

Like I said, zero reference about a team or competing, just a mention about developing a "car".

Sadly, I am waiting for the other shoe to drop. Max talking about a 30 M budget, a cheap supplier for engines, and now, a company that potentially could be the supplier for the chassis. http://www.formula1.com/news/interviews ... /9026.html
Dave, you beat me to it: Birrane is a smart businessman, so it's safe to assume his press release was carefully written -- not just an off-the-cuff outburst. The term "develop a car" is far from "enter a team." Given Birrane's recent history (and success) it makes sense to assume Lola will build a car for others to enter rather than go through the expense and risk of actually competing as a factory team.

As for F1 becoming a spec series, IF Max and Bernie want to go that way, I think they're cunning enough to move that way step by step rather than in one fell swoop. I think it's coming. Want to speculate on the future direction Mosleystone? Imagine what is worst for F1 as we know and love it. That's where they'll go.
Enzo Ferrari was a great man. But he was not a good man. -- Phil Hill

xpensive
xpensive
214
Joined: 22 Nov 2008, 18:06
Location: Somewhere in Scandinavia

Re: Lola back to F1?

Post

There you go, step-by-step fazing out of the manufacturers, until a full-spec Lola-Cosworth with the new Concord in 2013?
"I spent most of my money on wine and women...I wasted the rest"

Jersey Tom
Jersey Tom
166
Joined: 29 May 2006, 20:49
Location: Huntersville, NC

Re: Lola back to F1?

Post

F1 will not be a single-make series. Conspiracy theories to that end are a little silly.

In any event.. too early for such speculation.
Grip is a four letter word. All opinions are my own and not those of current or previous employers.

User avatar
WhiteBlue
92
Joined: 14 Apr 2008, 20:58
Location: WhiteBlue Country

Re: Lola back to F1?

Post

I agree with Jersey Tom. Please read the Lola statement carefully. It says they want to build a car to compete. While it is not the time to make a final decision on a team you have to kick off the design for a 2010 car now. It is always possible to stop the team entry in the last minute if the conditions change. Look at Dave Richards statement to understand that:
It is a statement of fact Prodrive had made extensive preparations in 2007 and was ready to enter the championship in 2008. But then the goal posts literally changed overnight which prevented us from entering Formula One. This experience makes you somewhat cautious, but the circumstances are very different today. We are optimistic the new technical and cost-capping regulations will be approved by the FIA next week and create the right conditions for us to enter Formula One as a constructor this time.
Contrary to xpensive I say that Max is on a good course for F1. The latest cost savings had never happened without his initiative. His policy for a more open competition in F1 with more new teams have been stalled by the fat cats. I don't care about an eternal Ferrari/McLaren show. If you give guys like Brawn, Richards or Berger half a chance to compete on a sensible budget the sport and entertainment side will become much more interesting.

Read the article in the times about Aston Martin
Aston Martin enticed by Max Mosley’s plans for cut-price Formula One

Dave Richards
Kevin Eason
Bernie Ecclestone, Formula One’s billionaire commercial rights-holder, has cut through the recession to offer £30 million in aid to put three new teams on the grid next year.

His generosity, encouraged by necessity with the threat of more leading manufacturers fleeing the sport as the credit crunch bites, could bring one of the most famous names in British motoring into Formula One — Aston Martin.

David Richards, Aston’s chairman, is waiting for Max Mosley, president of the FIA, motor sport’s world governing body, to push through next week radical financial reforms that will cap the annual budgets of teams at £30 million. If Mosley gets his way for the start of a cut-price Formula One — and the president is most persuasive — Richards will push the button to enter a new team next season.

As many as eight candidates are vying for three places on the grid, with Lola, which left Formula One 12 years ago, considering an entry and a new American squad already formed.

But Richards, with a prospective entry from Aston Martin, is the most exciting and intriguing. Richards has been this way before, as a former team principal of Benetton-Renault, the only successful team principal of the Honda outfit that folded last year and the man who rescued the career of Jenson Button from the scrapheap.

He attempted to launch a team two years ago, before Formula One’s arcane politics and infighting scuppered his plans. He had a £45 million budget in place and, with backing from the Middle East, he believes that breaking into Formula One this time will be easier, provided that Mosley can deliver a financially sensible future.

“This is a great time to come in,” Richards said yesterday. “If budgets are capped to a sensible level, everybody will benefit. Instead of Formula One being a contest of the teams with the most money, it will become a championship for engineers with ingenuity and great drivers who can show their skill, as it was years ago.”

The importance of new blood is underlined by the extraordinary decision of Ecclestone, chief executive of Formula One Management, the company that runs the sport’s commercial business, to plough almost £7 million as seed capital into each team and then pay at least £3 million more for their travel costs for a season.

The sudden departure of Honda late last year was the reality check that free-spending Formula One needed. Speculation abounds that Toyota could yet follow its Japanese rival, while there is uncertainty over the future of Renault and whispers are growing that senior executives at even Mercedes-Benz, which owns 40 per cent of McLaren, are having doubts over the wisdom of spending in Formula One when their car company is suffering in the recession.

Mosley is aghast that any team can contemplate spending up to £300 million in a season and is determined to slash budgets. It is expected he will tell the teams next week that £30 million will have to buy both chassis and engines, although they will be free to pay their drivers what they like, which will come as a relief to Lewis Hamilton, who signed a five-year, £75 million deal with McLaren last season.

The budget cap is the catalyst to bring in entrepreneurs such as Richards. He will have talks with his Middle Eastern backers next week and that will help to determine whether he launches a team with a sponsor brand or a squad under the Aston Martin banner.

“Nothing is decided yet,” he said. “But the key to all of this is the financial reality that the budget cap will bring. Take a £300 million budget and, in reality, all you really need is a tenth of that. Things just got hopelessly out of control. What Max has come up with is not just eminently sensible but crucial to the survival of the sport. This way, new teams can become involved at a sensible price and with a chance of being competitive.”

Richards has facilities ready and built, including space at his Prodrive factory in Banbury, Oxfordshire, where the World Championshipwinning Subaru rally cars for Colin McRae and Richard Burns were built.

Just how lean and mean the new Formula One could be will be exemplified by Richards’s team, which will have a staff of 142, compared with an estimated 1,000 at McLaren and 750 at the old Honda team, now rebranded as Brawn GP.

The budget cap has also opened the way for the resurrection of another evocative name among motor racing fans. Cosworth, the engine company based in Northampton that left Formula One in 2006, is offering relatively cheap engines to start-up teams to help to keep their costs low.

For this to happen the rich teams have to be forced to accept limits of expenditure and resources. The FIA has tried this on several ways (long life components, customer cars, independant engine supplier) but always found some obstacle. I believe that the design freedom for budget cap proposal could make it happen. If they get the options right all teams will agree to the budget cap and we will have six more cars on the grid from Aston Martin, Lola and USGPE.
Formula One's fundamental ethos is about success coming to those with the most ingenious engineering and best .............................. organization, not to those with the biggest budget. (Dave Richards)

User avatar
Chaparral
0
Joined: 01 May 2008, 13:10
Location: New England District NSW Australia

Re: Lola back to F1?

Post

Just a question that begs to be asked - would all these new 'budget cap' teams (and it could include some of the established teams) be joining FOTA or would this exclude them from that - therefore driving a further wedge between the teams - something to think about as Im sure the two who run the circus have thought about it.
The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free and good men die like dogs - there's also the negative side' - Hunter S Thompson

User avatar
WhiteBlue
92
Joined: 14 Apr 2008, 20:58
Location: WhiteBlue Country

Re: Lola back to F1?

Post

FOTA in my view is a temporary thing. I would be surprised if they were around in five years time. It is not the nature of competing teams to operate with one voice. Sooner or later they will break apart under the natural pressure of this business. F1 is a fast changing world and at the moment is changing faster than 14 years ago, when the manufacturers came in.

So FOTA will not be able to bring the necessary initiatives and changes off at the pace the situation requires. Toyota, Renault and Mercedes are reviewing their position in F1 and can make drastic changes at any time. Ferrari could well be on their way back into the ignominy of mid field runners they used to have in the early nineties.

To understand why FOTA will not work you only need to look at history. Foca sucessfully challenged FIA and quickly disappeared when their exponents took over the establishment. Then the teams got the opportunity to buy the whole shebang for several hundred million dollars but they could not agree to make a bid against Bernie. The price was perhaps 20% of their collective annual budget and well within their credit limit I guess. Next time the manufacturer led teams got together in the GPMA and Ferrari eventually broke out and settled for money. So this is now three times the teams broke apart to their disadvantage. I do not see a reason that it will work out any different the fourth time round.
Formula One's fundamental ethos is about success coming to those with the most ingenious engineering and best .............................. organization, not to those with the biggest budget. (Dave Richards)

User avatar
ISLAMATRON
0
Joined: 01 Oct 2008, 18:29

Re: Lola back to F1?

Post

I think the teams mutual hate for the evil wondertwins might keep FOTA alive just until 1 of them leaves the scene.

User avatar
WhiteBlue
92
Joined: 14 Apr 2008, 20:58
Location: WhiteBlue Country

Re: Lola back to F1?

Post

I do not see FOTA as a reaction to FIA and FOM collaboration. I rather think they primarily got together to protect the value of their exclusive franchise in a crisis where F1 was threatened to collapse under the cost burden. So they simply took the path of the lesser evil. As soon as the crisis is over the unity will be over as well.
Formula One's fundamental ethos is about success coming to those with the most ingenious engineering and best .............................. organization, not to those with the biggest budget. (Dave Richards)