Kubica underated ?

[Belatti]

If Kovalainen can spend 2 years in a Mclaren then Kubica definitely deserves a seat at a top team.

Yep.

But still he is not that great. Like Nick, they both are a little above average F1 drivers. There are a lot of them and thats they way it got to be. Simply there cant be 20 Schumachers or Sennas in the grid. If it were, neither of us would notice.

[axle]

Kubica annoucement set for tomorrow??

http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns21897.html

Renault will be announcing Robert Kubica as its lead driver in 2010 in the course of the next 24 hours. It is not clear who will partner him but it is unlikely to be Romain Grosjean, who has seemed completely out of his depth since he replaced Nelson Piquet Jr. The team is saying nothing at the moment but the decision over a second driver will be taken in the off season. One man who might be in line for the job is Heikki Kovalainen, who is going to be ousted at McLaren when Kimi Raikkonen returns from Italy.

[noname]

I am from Poland, as Robert, so one should not be surprised I am biased towards him.

for Nick 2009 is his 10th season in F1. till know he did not win any race, has not been in contention for the WDC (as was Robert last year) and I can not find information about teams eager to get his services, in contrary to Robert.

one can argue Nick has not had the right car to fight for the glory but for me it only means none of the big teams considered him as potential champion. he had enough time to convince them but he did not. he is a good driver, consistent point-scorer, but not a champion.

will Robert score more during his time in F1 ? I do not know, yet, time will tell. at the time being I rate him higher than Nick.

[Belatti]

I am from Poland, as Robert, so one should not be surprised I am biased towards him.

for Nick 2009 is his 10th season in F1. till know he did not win any race, has not been in contention for the WDC (as was Robert last year) and I can not find information about teams eager to get his services, in contrary to Robert.

one can argue Nick has not had the right car to fight for the glory but for me it only means none of the big teams considered him as potential champion. he had enough time to convince them but he did not. he is a good driver, consistent point-scorer, but not a champion.

will Robert score more during his time in F1 ? I do not know, yet, time will tell. at the time being I rate him higher than Nick.

Good points.

[gcdugas]

I am from Poland, as Robert, so one should not be surprised I am biased towards him.

for Nick 2009 is his 10th season in F1. till know he did not win any race, has not been in contention for the WDC (as was Robert last year) and I can not find information about teams eager to get his services, in contrary to Robert.

one can argue Nick has not had the right car to fight for the glory but for me it only means none of the big teams considered him as potential champion. he had enough time to convince them but he did not. he is a good driver, consistent point-scorer, but not a champion.

will Robert score more during his time in F1 ? I do not know, yet, time will tell. at the time being I rate him higher than Nick.

Just remember that the only reason Robert won Canada last year was that Nick had to let him by. Robert was on a three stop strategy and Nick was on a two stop strategy. Nick was ahead on the road after the first stops. Nick had to let Robert through for Robert's strategy to work. If Robert was driving for a competing team he would have remained behind Nick enough laps for the strategy not to work and Nick would have finished first instead of second. And Robert might not have even finished third were he held up for a few laps trying to get past Nick if they were on different teams. The only reason he let Robert through unimpeded is because they were on the same team. Just a little perspective...

WAY OVERRATED! Robert is a good driver as is Nick. Robert is not a team leader or car developer as Renault will soon find out. Rosberg is. Lewis is. Fernando is. Kimi isn't. Vettel is. Jensen isn't. Massa has risen to it at times. Robert moans too much also. I rank Robert behind LH, KR, FM, FA, NR, JB, RB, SV, MW, about even with TG, JT and NH. Ahead of only AS, HK, KN, SBu, JA, the disgraced talentless NP Jr. and the aging GF.

[segedunum]

one can argue Nick has not had the right car to fight for the glory but for me it only means none of the big teams considered him as potential champion. he had enough time to convince them but he did not. he is a good driver, consistent point-scorer, but not a champion.

True. Maybe Heidfeld is too boringly consistent and just hasn't got the one or two spectacular results here and there that might have convinced many teams that he can get the results when the chips are really down. I'd still take him over Kubica. I feel that he would be a very astute driver signing for a team who needs the results to head them towards the front of the grid.

[segedunum]

Robert is not a team leader or car developer as Renault will soon find out. Rosberg is. Lewis is. Fernando is. Kimi isn't. Vettel is. Jensen isn't. Massa has risen to it at times.

Bah. I hate this notion that somehow a driver can be labelled as a 'car developer'. It's like that ridiculous notion that somehow Alonso turned up at McLaren and it was six-tenths faster. All drivers develop the car in some way through the feedback that they have to give about it. However, a driver's ability to affect change is perhaps limited more than ever by what the car will do and is directly proportional to the resources his team has and the engineering talent.

[noname]

Just remember that the only reason Robert won Canada last year was that Nick had to let him by. (...)

it was not the first time when driver from one team let his team mate go by. it was common in the team driving red cars, it happened to Mclaren more than once, to Jordan in Spa in 98 and so on and so on.

I also remember races when BMW made "mistakes" in favor of Nick. there were speculations (especially in Polish media to be honest, which were Robert-biased far too much) it was done to help Nick to justify his staying with the team for next season.

as for Robert's abilities as a leader or car developer. I do not know if he will be a good leader but last year it was Robert, not Nick, who was pushing BMW to not abandon fight for the titles. Robert was also highly rated rated as a test driver thanks to his consistency and ability to help engineers improving the car. Mario T. was full of praise for what Robert did as a 3rd driver during friday's sessions.

will he shine in Renault ? we do not even know if he will be driving for them so I suggest to wait and see what will happened. none of us has a crystal ball, I think

regards

[ISLAMATRON]

Bob had no chance or claim to the title last year... he got 1 lucky win, which as mentioned before Nick helped him get after Lou rammed Kimi. His 1 Lucky win does not approach MAssa's or Lou's string of wins last year.

Bob complaining about the team "not supporting" his WDC bid was absurd, he had a tiny chance while the team had a huge feat in front of them to be ready for 2009. And the way he has continued to bellyache about it is nauseating. It surely does not shine the best light on him.

I doubt he would be able to help Renault right the ship.

[nipo]

Robert is not a team leader or car developer as Renault will soon find out. Rosberg is. Lewis is. Fernando is. Kimi isn't. Vettel is. Jensen isn't. Massa has risen to it at times. Robert moans too much also. I rank Robert behind LH, KR, FM, FA, NR, JB, RB, SV, MW, about even with TG, JT and NH. Ahead of only AS, HK, KN, SBu, JA, the disgraced talentless NP Jr. and the aging GF.

I am not too familiar with everybody here, but do you work in the F1 paddock?

Even when you speak to an engineer or any insider in an F1 team, I doubt whether he'll be able to give you that sort of "comprehensive overview" of all the drivers in F1

[gcdugas]

Robert is not a team leader or car developer as Renault will soon find out. Rosberg is. Lewis is. Fernando is. Kimi isn't. Vettel is. Jensen isn't. Massa has risen to it at times. Robert moans too much also. I rank Robert behind LH, KR, FM, FA, NR, JB, RB, SV, MW, about even with TG, JT and NH. Ahead of only AS, HK, KN, SBu, JA, the disgraced talentless NP Jr. and the aging GF.

I am not too familiar with everybody here, but do you work in the F1 paddock?

Even when you speak to an engineer or any insider in an F1 team, I doubt whether he'll be able to give you that sort of "comprehensive overview" of all the drivers in F1

Does one need to work in the F1 paddock to have an opinion? If the answer is that I do work in the F1 paddock does that make my opinion valid, binding and authoritative? If I don't work in the F1 paddock does that necessarily invalidate my opinion/observations?

Back in 2006 when Ferrari were shopping for Schumi's successor they valued Kimi above Fernando. Now their opinion, and perhaps the facts have changed. Why don't you weigh-in with your opinion? After all, the title of this thread is "Kubica underated?" and that invites opinions as such matters are necessarily subjective.

[PlatinumZealot]

ROBERT KUBICA

Over average.. that is all..

I don't see what's the fuss, Kovi has one win too..

He is aggressive I give him that, but he was greatly out shined by Nick this year in aggression and outright pace.

[nipo]

Does one need to work in the F1 paddock to have an opinion? If the answer is that I do work in the F1 paddock does that make my opinion valid, binding and authoritative? If I don't work in the F1 paddock does that necessarily invalidate my opinion/observations?

Back in 2006 when Ferrari were shopping for Schumi's successor they valued Kimi above Fernando. Now their opinion, and perhaps the facts have changed. Why don't you weigh-in with your opinion? After all, the title of this thread is "Kubica underated?" and that invites opinions as such matters are necessarily subjective.

Well I can't decide because I don't really see the upper-hand between the Kubica-Heidfeld pairing. From what a lot of people say (in this forum and beyond) it seems that Kubica might have more pace but then Heidfeld also has an amazing consistency record.

I am just a bit curious about the facts you base your opinions on... You know, you didn't reveal your thought process and considerations and jumped straight to the conclusion, which is very specific I must say, making reference to every driver on the grid and laying them out in order... It is even harder to believe you know who are the good "car developers", a term itself under frequent debate as someone already pointed out.

To answer your first question I think we don't need to work in the F1 paddock to have an opinion. But I would say when you start ranking drivers and deciding who's a good car developer and who's not, as a reader I am naturally curious about how you came up with it.

You were absolutely sure of your assessment ("Robert IS NOT... Rosberg IS." etc.). You weren't guessing, you weren't raising an opinion. You KNEW it.

That, to me, sounded like you have worked with Robert, Rosberg, Lewis, Fernando, Kimi, Vettel, Jensen and Massa, or at least have connections to those who developed cars with them. You also need to be familiar with all the external factors that affect driver results (e.g. car performance, team strategy etc.), so that you can cancel them out, distilling the "pure" driver abilities which you can then evaluate and rank.

That makes you a person working in or close to the F1 paddock. Or maybe you know people who do, who gave you first hand info.
Either that, or you were completely just BS-ing.
(I'll give you a 3rd possibility - you didn't have time to explain your thoughts, in which case I'll eagerly await your revelation)

[axle]

Confirmed at Renault.

http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/n ... 1306.shtml

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/79319

[ISLAMATRON]

MAybe he can find the 6 tenths that Alonso somehow lost... but unless Michelin come back I doubt it