2011 18" tyres...

[Scotracer]

Right I've been thinking about this change since it was proposed and I still have no idea what positive difference they think it'll make. At first I thought it was a typo - that they were increasing the width to 18" not the diameter.

What they need to do, I think, is increase the power levels for the same grip. Look at it in the wet: they have way more power than adhesion and it makes things less predictable and secure for the drivers.

[Edis]

FIA is thinking about intruducing new 18" tyres for the rear of F1 cars next year.
This would increase the mechanical grip of the rear.

Oh? Says who?

What's the point of going to 18" rim diameter? Who cares? Not like the cars don't have insane response levels as it already is.

I also wouldn't believe any arguments about being more 'relevant' to consumer passenger tires, or sportscar racing. Completely different applications and requirements.

And even if it magically did invite more tire manufacturers in.. doesn't mean you'd have a product that was any good.

Bottom line, it's a huge change.. would require big time engineering work from the race teams, brake suppliers, wheel manufacturers...

Who cares? Well, I would assume the tire manufacturers who do this for marketing reasons care. They would want to race something their customers can relate to. I would guess that rim manufacturers would prefer the same.

Secondly, why would a sportscar tire be 'completely different'? I don't think the differences would be that great between a F1 car and a LMP car if the former was optimized to run 18" wheels.

[hecti]

would they have to limit brake size tho?maybe by surface area?

[gambler]

Would tire wear increase with a shorter side wall tire that has less
deflection? I think the heat number maybe would go down as a whole.

[Jersey Tom]

I give up..

[rjs]

I give up..

Don't do that Tom, I for one am interested in your thoughts on this.

Putting things into perspective, Michelin, if it is to re-enter F1, has Mr E over a barrel. F1 needs rubber and since they haven't managed to come up with a supplier at this late stage, anyone that is thinking about supplying that has any relevant experience can probably dictate the terms to quite a large degree.

So the 18" thing is either FOM randomness, or it might come from Michelin. If the former, it will go away because it's unlikely anyone is going to commit to tooling up for entirely new spec with no testing and no development time.

On the other hand, if the idea came from Michelin, presumeably that's because they see some benefit; marketing, synergies with other formulae, cost, something? It seems like you don't believe there are any benefits and therefore this mustn't be Michelin's idea but where does that leave us? If it is Michelin's idea, where might they see the benefits coming from?

Do both of these pieces of news (Michelin's potential involvement plus 18") coming out together mean that we shouldn't trust either? As you've mentioned before, the list of manufacturers that are capable of supplying and have the business reach to bother trying is resonably small, so I can only imaging that discussions with Michelin must be at least reasonably serious.

Rj

[raceman]

If you fit 18" rims to the current F1 cars, how will it look? will any expert here help with just a rough drawing???

IMO, it will be interesting to see how it will look.

[rjs]

Right I've been thinking about this change since it was proposed and I still have no idea what positive difference they think it'll make.

The only benefit that I can think of is to reset the playing field.

Apparently Michelin are very keen on competition if they are going to re-enter F1 but I'm sure they don't actually want to be beaten, just forced to compete. If the suggestion is taken up to allow any manufacturer to supply tyres, then there is the chance that Bridgestone will stay on but only supplying a couple of teams (Ferrari). With almost no testing allowed, Bridgestone would have a huge advantage over anyone else simply due to the data they have been collecting over the past few years... so it would make sense for Michelin to want to negate that at the same time as asking for vigorous competition.

Not a lot of this is making sense though; the way that everyone seems to have behaved since Bridgestone announced they were out suggests no-one was taking them seriously. It's certainly an interesting state of affairs, as documented in the other thread.

[Pandamasque]

If you fit 18" rims to the current F1 cars, how will it look? will any expert here help with just a rough drawing???

IMO, it will be interesting to see how it will look.

viewtopic.php?p=156904#p156904

[raceman]

If you fit 18" rims to the current F1 cars, how will it look? will any expert here help with just a rough drawing???

IMO, it will be interesting to see how it will look.

viewtopic.php?p=156904#p156904

hiya, thnx much Panda.

[Jersey Tom]

I still say the whole idea of consumer 'relevance' is being blown out of proportion. Look at the cars themselves! How much 'relevance' does an open wheeler have to Ferrari's line of road cars? Just because they don't look the same doesn't mean crap.

Motor racing has never been, and never needs to be 'relevant' to your every day car and driver. More often than not, technology is developed OUTSIDE of F1 and brought in, rather than developed in F1 and pushed out. That's the way it's always been.

Switching to 18" bead diameter tires just seems like extra cost for everyone for no real gain.

[DaveW]

Switching to 18" bead diameter tires just seems like extra cost for everyone for no real gain.

Might suit Michelin, JT. Apparently Michelin supplied 75% of the Le Mans starters in 2009 - most, if not all, using 18 inch rims....

[matt21]

would they have to limit brake size tho?maybe by surface area?

The brake disc diameter and thickness is already limited in the technical regulations.

11.3.2 All discs must have a maximum thickness of 28mm and a maximum outside diameter of 278mm.

[ubrben]

Switching to 18" bead diameter tires just seems like extra cost for everyone for no real gain.

Might suit Michelin, JT. Apparently Michelin supplied 75% of the Le Mans starters in 2009 - most, if not all, using 18 inch rims....

They want to go back into F1 and position themselves behind green issues because someone's threatening their dominance in Le Mans Series racing

Not sure where 18" comes into this, but they're making noises about sustainability and other such rubbish.

I wish people would accept that motor racing isn't and never will be environmentally friendly and virtually nothing from racing translates into road cars apart from styling cues and marketing BS.

Ben

[ubrben]

Would tire wear increase with a shorter side wall tire that has less
deflection? I think the heat number maybe would go down as a whole.

What do you mean by heat number?

Le Mans cars do 1 hour stints on tyres and they're heavier than F1 cars with less downforce.

Tyre wear is a lot more complicated than sidewall height - generalisations like that are less than useless.

Ben