Ferrari the followers now.

[Sean H]

Wins, points and championships is what matters. You don't get many accolades for 'innovations'.

And as was pointed out earlier, had Ferrari came up with some of these ideas, half of this crowd would of been screaming bloody murder about the cheaters in Maranello.

[Tim.Wright]

Innovation for the sake of innovation is just as stupid as blindly copying without understanding a system. Ferrari don't seem to do either.

Its not a gadget contest. Thats for the consumer car market

[ajdavison2]

Personally I see ferrari as a team who are willing to go to the limits of the regs, but not see if they can push them any further (i.e. brawn 09). just my opinion

[Agenda_Is_Incorrect]

Ferrari have yet to demonstrate that they are able to compete by good engineering instead by pure superiority of budget and resources. I don't believe they can. When they are on the same resources as the other teams in 2012 they will fall back behind Mercedes. At least that is my reading of the situation.

What a shocking opinion from WB! He never said that before! So, that's an innovation for him and for Ferrari in F1, the big budget. Realy on topic.

Don't worry WB, that won't be the first time you are wrong in your readings. Remember that almost every other championship winning team had a big budget for sometime. It's both a cause and a consequence many times and so it's not an innovation of Ferrari. They had many other though, if you can remember an actual one to contribute to this topic, it would be nice.

I'll say a recent one: the slant gearbox from last year.

[ringo]

Ferrari are definitely followers, but they follow sensibly.
They have the pedigree that most teams don't. The F150 and F10 are basically redbull spin offs but pretty subdued copies.

They shamelessly copied quite a number of gadgets in the last 2 seasons as well.
exhuast blown diffuser, DDD, f duct, outwash front wing, flexi wings ect.

I have utmost respect for ferrari though. On average their cars are mostly at the front. They don't screw up as often as Mclaren when it comes to certain characteristics of the car.

[tk421]

When was the last time Ferrari innovated worth something? Now other teams like McLaren, Red Bull, Renault are leading the way while all Ferrari can do is copy.

I don't know much, but I'm guessing sometime around the Ferrari era (2000-2004) is when Ferrari were the innovators and everyone else were the followers...

[hud]

IMHO, just being innovative is not enough. Perfectly applied is what matter the most. In 2009-2010 seasons,it is true that ferrari wasn't innovative enough,but they're most of the time the first team to 'copy it right' from others, DDD, F-Duct & blown diff.
That's not the same with McLaren, they took long time to get their own innovation working right (F-Duct; blown flap, then blown main plane, then...) and very very long time to copy RBR blown diff.

[WhiteBlue]

Ferrari have yet to demonstrate that they are able to compete by good engineering instead by pure superiority of budget and resources. I don't believe they can. When they are on the same resources as the other teams in 2012 they will fall back behind Mercedes. At least that is my reading of the situation.

What a shocking opinion from WB! He never said that before! So, that's an innovation for him and for Ferrari in F1, the big budget. Realy on topic.

Don't worry WB, that won't be the first time you are wrong in your readings. Remember that almost every other championship winning team had a big budget for sometime. It's both a cause and a consequence many times and so it's not an innovation of Ferrari. They had many other though, if you can remember an actual one to contribute to this topic, it would be nice.

I'll say a recent one: the slant gearbox from last year.

I agree to the part where it says that you need a budget to win. Obviously if you are relying on pay drivers you are not in a position to win a championship. This puts just four teams in contention this year.

If you compare Red Bull with the three others they had the smallest budget in terms of total cost for the chassis, engine and KERS in 2010 and will again have it in 2011. They managed WDC and WCC on that smallest of realistic budgets and are rightfully the engineering champions in my view. Ferrari are far away from being the top engineering outfit in F1 and absolutely in terms of competitiveness they are in decline.

[gridwalker]

Innovation alone certainly isn't enough to win, even when the concept is a real "game changer". The introduction of one of Ferrari's greatest innovations fell right in the middle of the most barren period in their history (at least in terms of championships) : the introduction of John Barnard's semi-auto gearbox back in 1989.

If innovation was the key to success, this technology (which soon became a must-have item) should have shot them straight to the top. It didn't ... in fact, Williams soon mastered the technology ("copied" if you like) and became the first team to win the F1 championship with a semi-auto car.

Innovation is pointless if you do not maximise your advantage before your competition catches on to your idea : a fresh set of eyes can often see improvements to a concept that the creator hadn't considered.

[bhall]

Ferrari must be doing something right since this year's Renault features a nose and chassis which very closely resemble last year's Ferrari.





Point being, everyone copies everyone.

[WhiteBlue]

Innovation alone certainly isn't enough to win, even when the concept is a real "game changer".

Innovation is pointless if you do not maximise your advantage before your competition catches on to your idea : a fresh set of eyes can often see improvements to a concept that the creator hadn't considered.

I do agree that pure innovation is hardly the criterion for engineering excellence. In an environment of change as F1 is you also have to analyse the importance of innovations and how several feature may combine for a higher performance level. The point is to find the best direction through a jungle of options and projects with the least use of resources in the fastest time. It is a classical engineering task that is not always about being new and different but about a grasp what is important.

IMO Ferrari do not have that culture as they have been used to throw an over kill of resources at every feature and issue that popped up in the F1 world. Domenicali has commented on that aspect a year ago and I found it quite amusing.

[wesley123]

Or that nosecose on the F2008. Simple fact is they're still quick, so who cares?

The Nosecone hole actually was Manchilds idea

But anyway, it is not about innovation it is about th whole package that counts. You can have an incredible diffuser but if the front wing doesnt work at all you stil have nothing. It is the whole thing, not a small part that helps you win the championship.

[Giblet]

I'm no Ferrari fan, but I do understand that winning requires the fastest car and/or some luck and/or a great driver.

There is no requirement to innovate whatsoever.

[Pierce89]

Ferrari have yet to demonstrate that they are able to compete by good engineering instead by pure superiority of budget and resources. I don't believe they can. When they are on the same resources as the other teams in 2012 they will fall back behind Mercedes. At least that is my reading of the situation.

What a shocking opinion from WB! He never said that before! So, that's an innovation for him and for Ferrari in F1, the big budget. Realy on topic.

Don't worry WB, that won't be the first time you are wrong in your readings. Remember that almost every other championship winning team had a big budget for sometime. It's both a cause and a consequence many times and so it's not an innovation of Ferrari. They had many other though, if you can remember an actual one to contribute to this topic, it would be nice.

I'll say a recent one: the slant gearbox from last year.

I agree to the part where it says that you need a budget to win. Obviously if you are relying on pay drivers you are not in a position to win a championship. This puts just four teams in contention this year.

If you compare Red Bull with the three others they had the smallest budget in terms of total cost for the chassis, engine and KERS in 2010 and will again have it in 2011. They managed WDC and WCC on that smallest of realistic budgets and are rightfully the engineering champions in my view. Ferrari are far away from being the top engineering outfit in F1 and absolutely in terms of competitiveness they are in decline.

If that's the case,why was there an uproar about RBR outspending the RRA.

[Giblet]

If that's the case,why was there an uproar about RBR outspending the RRA.

They were never found in breach though, so it must be assumed other teams were sour graping.