Where would Robert Kubica have come?

[Tamburello]

Robert would not have finished any better. Look at the gap between Petrov and Hamilton.
Petrov is the new #1 now. He is doing the maximum so far.

As it relates to Robert vs petrov pace. Petrov was a rookie last year, so it's not really convincing to use qualifying gaps from last year to give Robert a false sense of superiority.
Petrov did beat him twice last year. That shows Petrov is probably just as fast, but only need some confidence and experience to put his races together.

Kubica never had a fast teammate to prove he is one of the fastest, he's probably lucky he's out for 2011. He narrowly dodged Petrov opening up a can of whoopass on him today.

When Hamilton beats his teammate it's because he's inherently faster but when Kubica beats his teammate to a pulp, it's because the other guy's a rookie. You don't make much sense. Petrov has speed, for sure, but Kubica was on a different level before his accident.

Kubica is faster, but that was then in 2010, there is no evidence to suggest Petrov would not have matched him this year.
As it is Kubica is no longer in F1, we don't even know if he will return.
He must be pounding his fists in his hospital bed watching Petrov celebrate on the podium. Kubica did himself in, and petrov is making the best of it.

I think this whole thread has an envious tone to it.
Reality is starting to hit home that risky activities like rallying don't pay off in the long run for F1 pilots. Right as the accident happened, everyone was supporting his decision to rally, now that Vitaly is looking like a star in the R31 they're finally understanding what Kubica is missing out on.
Petrov may get a win this year and many more podiums. By the time time Kubica comes back, he'll be so rusty Renault will have no choice but to keep Petrov as de facto #1.

I was dumbfounded by Kubica's rally interest as well but that's what he is. He's like Kimi in that sense, a racing junkie. It's what makes their hearts tick and probably accounts for a major part of their speed. I guess you can't have one without the other with these kind of people.

But I'm sure he'd be happy for Petrov doing well. I just hope he recovers and is able to get back to show us that he can still mix it with the best.

[Fil]

Kubica isn't looking so smart now is he? lol

Looking forward to Renault's first win for 2011!!

why would you even begin to gloat about someone's misfortune like that?

I must say, coming from you, this seems very out of character.



This terrible & utterly pointless 'what if' topic will bring nothing good or constructive from it.

[Pandamasque]

Reality is starting to hit home that risky activities like rallying don't pay off in the long run for F1 pilots.

You are effectively saying that risky activities like racing don't pay off in the long run for racing drivers. Well that's their job and a way of life. Who knows if Kubica would be half as good if he wouldn't be who he is?

As for Petrov, the difference between him and Kubica seems to be that Kubica would do just as well if not better in each and every race. I don't think Petrov will.

[timbo]

As for Petrov, the difference between him and Kubica seems to be that Kubica would do just as well if not better in each and every race. I don't think Petrov will.

Well, I don't think Petrov will do better than Petrov.

[xDama]

Still no lock on this useless thread?

Maybe we could ask the question where Raikkonen would have finished? Or maybe even Hakkinen?

Hell, why not wonder what Senna would've done?

[Tufty]

Still no lock on this useless thread?

Maybe we could ask the question where Raikkonen would have finished? Or maybe even Hakkinen?

Hell, why not wonder what Senna would've done?

Raikkonen would have been sixth for Ferrari with the fastest lap.
Hakkinen would have been running second, before a failure in the final laps.
Senna - what could ANYONE do with that Williams?!

[all in jest, in case anyone is wondering!]

As for Kubica, I honestly don't think he could have won, but he MIGHT have got the jump on Lewis on the first lap and would certainly have finished no lower than third, assuming reliability matches Petrov, and noone drives into his sidepod...

[bgroovers]

Im sorry but i dont feel this is a useless thread. The question i raised is trying to look at subjectively where renault car is relative to the others taking into account that Petrov was no where near Kubica last year. Granted he was a rookie and a clear number two within the team but this does not mean that in 2011 without Robert in the other car that he is extracting 100% as we can assume Robert would have managed. Nick Heidfeld totally messed up qualifying and the race so we cannot gauge petrov against him and even then its generally acknowledged that Kubica is one of the best in the world pre accident.
I am amazed that anyone can suddenly believe that Petrov is now some kind of wonderkid and not that potentially the r31 is one of the best cars on the grid not 4th best. The R31 is a revolutionary car with its FFE. I am not speculating on some speariouse subject such as Senna or Kimi. Robert was signed to drive this car and may well have been a title contender.
Do people really believe that a driver gets number one status in a team because its in there contract. No a driver is no 1 because he is faster. Period. If Massa was faster than Alonso he would be no 1. He is not so hes no 2. No driver in the pit lane is given number 2 status without being slower than there team mate over any given period of time.

[andrew]

Im sorry but i dont feel this is a useless thread.

I'm afraid it is. The only facts that can be established (and are already known) are:

1. The Renault is a darn quick car,
2. Kubica is a darn quick chap,
3. Petrov is largely an unknown quantity. Quite a few rookie errors last year, but there were often glimpses of him being up to the task.

Anything else from now on is pure speculation, conjecture and opinion, none of which are factual. Sadly, nothing factual can be established in this thread.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Yeaup.

Where would Kubica have come? 1st, last DNF you name it, he couldve done it.
But the dude is sat in Hospital...nullifying it all.

Pointless.

[marekk]

He would come 13th.
Why 13th ? Why not ?

But as this is technical forum, seriously:

This car was designed with RK's input and driving style in mind. All this street tracks, late braking, driveability stuff.

Vitaly has speed and matures quickly, but he lacks RK's years (started at age of of experience of setting up the car (Petrov comes from street cars series, with only few seasons in GP2). Nick needs a car so different from RK's as it gets. Both from physicality and driving style point of view.

After Nick's hiring with a status of 1st driver, they'll have to change development direction a little bit.
So it's maybe more a question of how far more will this car be developed with RK doing testing, not how many tenths Robert will be (or will be not) quicker in current car.

[MeowMix]

Im sorry but i dont feel this is a useless thread.

I'm afraid it is. The only facts that can be established (and are already known) are:

1. The Renault is a darn quick car,
2. Kubica is a darn quick chap,
3. Petrov is largely an unknown quantity. Quite a few rookie errors last year, but there were often glimpses of him being up to the task.

Anything else from now on is pure speculation, conjecture and opinion, none of which are factual. Sadly, nothing factual can be established in this thread.

Does anything factual always have to be established? I would swear that 90% of these threads contain poster's opinions and magazine articles based purely on speculation. There is no way that all the posters in the Aerodynamics section fore example are aerodynamicists, yet they post their opinions, which are then debated/discussed and actually end up providing constructive material for threads and the forum as a whole. More importantly, whats wrong with speculation? If its incorrect, who does it affect? Nobody.

If speculation really bothers you that much, why not just not bother reading threads such as these ones and stick to purely factual threads? Don't waste everybody's time rubbishing other people's threads. Threads they might consider insightful or interesting.

Back to the actual topic now... Who knows how Kubica would have ended up. I would like to believe Petrov has gotten to grips with the car and was wringing it for close to what its worth. Would Kubica been able to push the car further? Probably. Would he have overtaken Petrov after Petrov's incredible start, maybe. Would he have been going fast enough to catch Vettel and Hamilton however? I really doubt it. I believe had Kubica been racing or Quick nick been on the pace, we would have most likely have seen a Renault 3,4. Just my two peanuts ^^

[PlatinumZealot]

Kubica isn't looking so smart now is he? lol

Looking forward to Renault's first win for 2011!!

why would you even begin to gloat about someone's misfortune like that?

I am sorry the guy I truly am. Even once a kubica fan myself when I was a BMW Sauber fan. I'm just keeping it real. I am not gloating. Do I think Petrov getting a podium is a slightly amusing turn of events. YES.

Keeping. It. Real.


- They say every time a star falls another one rises. Kubica was the star at Renault, the big dog. Like a choke chain for Petrov being in a team that has a reputation for number 1 and number 2 drivers. Now with the defacto #1 gone, Petrov has more breathing room and a boost in confidence. His speed is there (it always was, out qualifying Kubica TWICE), the aggression is there (just like Kubica) and finally he's a RUSSIAN. Those are some bad ass people if you know what I mean! Don't mess with them!

I think Petrov is going to lead Renault just fine. Maybe a few poles, a win or two.

As to whether Kubica could have done better in Melobourne, I don't think so. Petrov is on another level now. Won't be surprised if he's better than a returning, though weakened Kubica.

[PlatinumZealot]

Still no lock on this useless thread?

Maybe we could ask the question where Raikkonen would have finished? Or maybe even Hakkinen?

Hell, why not wonder what Senna would've done?

Because they are not the designated driver of the R31. Come on man the thought must have crossed your mind.

How many poles and wins does Kubica have? 1 each? Ok. Lets keep this thread open until Petrov has two wins at Renault, be it R31 or R32.

[bot6]

Kubica used to beat Petrov regularly, but the gap wasn't as big by the end of the season. Petrov had a great weekend, put up a surprisingly good performance, and I'm not sure Kubica could have done better. But he still has to prove he can deliver on a consistent basis. Petrov has always been quick, the difference this time is he stayed on the track for long enough to finish the race. If he can keep doing so, he will be the good surprise of the year and will definitely give Nick a hard time. But he could also go back to his old ways and crash out more often than not.

As for Nick, don't count him out just yet. He had his KERS acting up during qualifying disturbing the balance of the car, and got his car smashed on lap 1, and still managed to get the thing home without looking completely ridiculous. When you look at the damage on the car, it's not a small achievement.
Wait until he can complete a race with a complete car before you judge him. Let's not forget he used to regularly be ahead of Kubica back at BMW.

[PlatinumZealot]

Yeah that's true. It was even between them.