I'm supporting not-Alonso

[vall]

Thankfully they refused, but Alonso's reaction to that was to attempt to blackmail the team principal. That action alone is indefensible.

please, let not distort the facts.... Alonso's reaction was prompted by the arrogant on- and off-track behaviour of LH. He refused several times to follow the pre-agreed team strategy to let Alonso do one more fuel-burning lap. LH was repeatedly asked to do that but he refused and even used the f-word on Ron (something that McLaren covered up later). What was Alonso supposed to do? Just take that and move forward? [-X I don't think any WDC would have done that.

Where the hell did you get that from? It's easy to show that Lewis's 'arrogant' behaviour was a direct reaction to Alonso's demands within the team to side line him and support Alonso. Yes he fought back and it culminated with Alonso BLACKMAILING Ron Dennis. This is not equivalent of swearing down the radio or refusing team orders, etc. You keep using the word 'fact' but I do not think it means what you think it means.

I cannot find now a more extended version but see here for example:

http://www.wheels24.co.za/printArticle. ... 43b&cid=14

[internetf1fan]

What does LH have to do with anything in this thread? Typical diversion tactics. One thing for sure, we've never heard Hamilton go on the radio and say "this is ridicuous" when his team mate ahead isn't moving over.

Whatever you think about LH, it doesn't change the fact that Alonso is one hot headed, arrogant, filthy cheating driver and even has the nerve to celebrate his cheat wins.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

I could probably live with the whining and whinging, I wouldn't like the guy but I could understand that there would be those that do. He was afterall the driver who took the challenge to Schumacher and beat him on track, often with superior drives in an inferior car. I wanted to like him through that period because of that, but he made it difficult.

So where do people get off questioning a brilliant driver becuase of his character?
Have they met him first hand?
Do they understand Alonso's reactions?

Look at the Massa incident that a poster kindly put up. Alonso was in his rights to complain because Massa closed a door that wasnt there to be shut.
Massa's comments after, "Seu Filha da puta d'um Caralho" was disgraceful!
Luckily I understand Portuguese, but Massa really didnt cover himself in grace.

Say what you will about Alonso that is relative to F1. If you want character and heroes, watch Saving Private Ryan.

[FW17]

So we have come to a conclusion that the english press is biased against FA and SV and they have corrupt many of our forum members

When did "we" come to that conclusion?

As an Englishman living in England I can tell you that the press have very little influence on me because I 'read around the subject'. I don't take a newspaper (my good lady takes the Observer (a Sunday paper) but F1 barely features in that at all) preferring to use multiple internet sources to try to build a picture of the sport.

By the way, is the press in your country totally unbiased?

We too get the clean unbiased version from the english press.

[nipo]

And for you lack of understand how anyone can support Alonso. That's actually fairly simple, he is pretty talented and bloody quick.

Personally I'm convinced that the McLaren situation has considerably changed him. I regarded him during his first Renault period as young and emotional, while now I have the impression that missing a few championships in recent years have made him too desperate to get another one. Maybe he will calm down if he could clinch it this year, who knows...

You should also realize that teams don't hire the driver alonso they rather want the spanish sponsors he brings with.

Oh please, do you actually believe what you write?

I agree. Alonso is bloody quick.

I don't agree the McLaren situation has considerably changed him. Whether you are right or I am, only time will tell. Or, we'll never know for sure, actually.

I don't know what got in the minds of Ferrari management. I'd just say that if I signed him, it would be because of his money AND the possibility of him helping to win a WDC at the same time. Yes he's quick, but he destroyed teams and people as well.

When Alonso joined Ferrari I said there are two possible outcomes:
1. Ferrari finds the much needed superiority that they had with MS. Alonso wins WDC again, or even more than once. Everyone is happy.
2. #1 doesn't happen and Alonso gets fed up. He puts the blame and pressure on the team and eventually something like Pique Jr. happens and Ferrari is left in rubbles.

Call me biased but I honestly believe this is highly likely, from opinion formed over years of observations.

[myurr]

I cannot find now a more extended version but see here for example:

http://www.wheels24.co.za/printArticle. ... 43b&cid=14

And what of the back story, or did Alonso's grumps only start in Hungary 07? And even if, heaven forbid, Lewis was a really naughty boy and blocked Alonso in Q3. Did that justify his blocking of Hamilton in the pits AND his rants and whinges in the press about the team at the time AND his subsequent blackmailing of the team principal, an action that ended with the FIA imposing the largest fine ever upon McLaren? Seriously!?

[FW17]

How come Mika got No.1 status while Fernando got nothing. It was Ron Dennis s fault as the head of the team to have made your experienced driver feel more at home and deal with the situations.

I am quiet sure that this is not the first time that a unhappy driver has a leverage against a team owner, and Ron Dennis took the wrong decision to confess to the devil rather than deal with the threat.

[myurr]

How come Mika got No.1 status while Fernando got nothing

Different time, different drivers, different contracts, different circumstances. I actually disagree with the team for giving Mika number 1 status, but your post displays the same sense of entitlement that Alonso is criticised for - Alonso didn't get 'nothing' he got equal opportunity yet both you and he think he was entitled to more.

Edit: Hakkinen had also been with McLaren for 5 years before he got number 1 status in his championship year.

[FW17]

How come Mika got No.1 status while Fernando got nothing

Different time, different drivers, different contracts, different circumstances. I actually disagree with the team for giving Mika number 1 status, but your post displays the same sense of entitlement that Alonso is criticised for.

Why shouldn’t a two time world champion get some priority within the team in his first year, did he not work hard during the winter to help develop the car? did he not work to get an early release of his contract to test the car in December? Were was the thanks for that? Was not development done towards him? so why did he feel so out of place during the race weekends? Hamilton was good, so what is wrong in him waiting for 2008 to make a case for equal status? The Hamilton tribe and McLaren so desperate and greedy to enter the history books as the first rookie champion

Do you honestly believe that Hamilton would have won the championship without Alonso in 2007?

[vall]

I cannot find now a more extended version but see here for example:

http://www.wheels24.co.za/printArticle. ... 43b&cid=14

And what of the back story, or did Alonso's grumps only start in Hungary 07?

I remember LH started crying s early as Monaco, no?

And even if, heaven forbid, Lewis was a really naughty boy and blocked Alonso in Q3. Did that justify his blocking of Hamilton in the pits AND his rants and whinges in the press about the team

some people would probably say he went to far, but I would have done the same at his place. So you suggests a 2xWDC to stay cool about it and let a rocky and his team to push him around? [-X He must show the little f..k where is his place was.

at the time AND his subsequent blackmailing of the team principal, an action that ended with the FIA imposing the largest fine ever upon McLaren? Seriously!?

hmmm,was not McLaren that stole the Ferrari files? So, yeah, blame Alonso. If McLaren were honest this would have not happened.

[myurr]

I cannot find now a more extended version but see here for example:

http://www.wheels24.co.za/printArticle. ... 43b&cid=14

And what of the back story, or did Alonso's grumps only start in Hungary 07?

I remember LH started crying s early as Monaco, no?

More deflection - when did Alonso start feeling unhappy in the team. You've claimed that it was before the first race in another post but now it's LH who threw the first tantrum in Monaco?

And even if, heaven forbid, Lewis was a really naughty boy and blocked Alonso in Q3. Did that justify his blocking of Hamilton in the pits AND his rants and whinges in the press about the team

some people would probably say he went to far, but I would have done the same at his place. So you suggests a 2xWDC to stay cool about it and let a rocky and his team to push him around? [-X He must show the little f..k where is his place was.

Up to this point it's not exactly becoming behaviour for a world champion, but it's not unprecedented. At this point had Alonso gone no further then people wouldn't have the same opinion of him. He may have lost some respect from some but nothing compared to the stain on his character that his subsequent actions brought.

at the time AND his subsequent blackmailing of the team principal, an action that ended with the FIA imposing the largest fine ever upon McLaren? Seriously!?

hmmm,was not McLaren that stole the Ferrari files? So, yeah, blame Alonso. If McLaren were honest this would have not happened.

No one force Alonso to BLACKMAIL the team. You keep skirting around this trying to blame this on others, but regardless of anything else that happened Alonso decided to blackmail the team to try and get preferential treatment. This isn't something that has been made up, it is a fact pure and simple. No action by anyone else can justify any driver trying to blackmail their team in such a way.

And anyway, had Alonso told Dennis of the stolen files early when he first found out about them then maybe the whole mess could have been avoided. Had Alonso then told the team of the extent of the internal knowledge and of the incriminating texts and emails during the internal investigations then the team probably could have avoided further sanction. Had Alonso then not tried to blackmail the team principal then nothing further would have happened.

You will no doubt try and use the actions of others to try and justify Alonso's actions or say that he wasn't the only one. But this isn't a thread about the whole incident it's a thread about Alonso's character, and no matter how you spin this Alonso has shown himself to be a murky and disreputable person capable of lying, manipulating and even blackmailing people.

[FW17]

at the time AND his subsequent blackmailing of the team principal, an action that ended with the FIA imposing the largest fine ever upon McLaren? Seriously!?

hmmm,was not McLaren that stole the Ferrari files? So, yeah, blame Alonso. If McLaren were honest this would have not happened.

Do not agree with that, a dis-satisfied employee from ferrari sent the document to a employee at Mclaren. There is no proof of any part of the document being used or seen inside Mclaren technical center other than Mosly’s agenda.

The same agrument can be used on ferrari that they sent the document on purpose to frame Mclaren.

Alonso's email exchange with de la rosa was on setup and had nothing to do with the document the dis-satisfied ferrari employee passed.

[myurr]

Why shouldn’t a two time world champion get some priority within the team in his first year, did he not work hard during the winter to help develop the car? did he not work to get an early release of his contract to test the car in December? Were was the thanks for that? Was not development done towards him? so why did he feel so out of place during the race weekends? Hamilton was good, so what is wrong in him waiting for 2008 to make a case for equal status? The Hamilton tribe and McLaren so desperate and greedy to enter the history books as the first rookie champion

Do you honestly believe that Hamilton would have won the championship without Alonso in 2007?

Because frankly if a driver is so amazingly good as to justify priority in the team then he shouldn't actually need it. Alonso signed a contract that stated equal treatment, as did Hamilton, why should he suddenly expect preferential treatment when Hamilton starts matching and then beating him.

And I honestly believe that Hamilton benefitted hugely from having Alonso alongside him, not so much in what he learnt from him (in terms of setup it was actually Hamilton that did the majority of the donkey work) but more in having someone alongside him who could really push him and bring out the best in him talent wise. I believe he's benefitting from that again this year with Button, except Button is much more grown up than Alonso and isn't throwing his toys out the pram because he is sometimes getting beaten by Lewis. Same thing happened with Senna and Prost - they couldn't stand each other and there were lots of fireworks, but they brought the best and worst out in each other on track pushing them both to greater heights than if they'd not had to face each other.

[vall]

Do not agree with that, a dis-satisfied employee from ferrari sent the document to a employee at Mclaren. There is no proof of any part of the document being used or seen inside Mclaren technical center other than Mosly’s agenda.

Alonso's email exchange with de la rosa was on setup and had nothing to do with the document the dis-satisfied ferrari employee passed.

I think it was proven that at least the 3 of the top McL tech. staff saw and knew about the documents (700+ paper, not just a sheet). They got fined as well. And yes, Alonso's emails woth PdlR was indeed set-up work, tire use, etc.

[vall]

No one force Alonso to BLACKMAIL the team. You keep skirting around this trying to blame this on others, but regardless of anything else that happened Alonso decided to blackmail the team to try and get preferential treatment. This isn't something that has been made up, it is a fact pure and simple. No action by anyone else can justify any driver trying to blackmail their team in such a way.

we have only Dennis' word on this, no? You think that this was proven. I have not heard from anyone else that Alonso demanded No.1 status.

And anyway, had Alonso told Dennis of the stolen files early when he first found out about them then maybe the whole mess could have been avoided. Had Alonso then told the team of the extent of the internal knowledge and of the incriminating texts and emails during the internal investigations then the team probably could have avoided further sanction. Had Alonso then not tried to blackmail the team principal then nothing further would have happened.

I doubt Alonso knew about the stolen files. He knew from Pedro that part of the info came from MC, who in turn got it from a Ferrari employee, But that's about it.

You will no doubt try and use the actions of others to try and justify Alonso's actions or say that he wasn't the only one. But this isn't a thread about the whole incident it's a thread about Alonso's character, and no matter how you spin this Alonso has shown himself to be a murky and disreputable person capable of lying, manipulating and even blackmailing people.