Return Of The Mighty V-10?

[hollus]

Well said. Simply changing the current fuel flow formula to a linear increase all the way to 15000 rpm would fix so many things in one stroke!
I wonder if the rule makers simply did not see that everyone would be shifting more or less before 13000...

[AnthonyG]

Toyota runs a NA indirect injected V10 engine at lemans and it's just as economical als the porsche pencill sharpner, how could one say that a V10 NA engine has no relevance in real world?

[McMrocks]

Well said. Simply changing the current fuel flow formula to a linear increase all the way to 15000 rpm would fix so many things in one stroke!
I wonder if the rule makers simply did not see that everyone would be shifting more or less before 13000...

Which is frankly amazing as some users here have predicted that a half year before the cars hit the track

[GitanesBlondes]

I do believe some important persons in the sport find it a problem. The race organiser of Austin did say the noise is an issue. The question is: should F1 adapt or should F1 try to convince?

Let's be honest here, the race organizer in Austin would have said the sky was purple with orange polka dots if that's what Bernie told him to say.

I think most of the problems with F1 would magically go away if Bernie did as well.

They wouldn't as whomever eventually takes over is going to be thinking solely in terms of maximizing CVC's profits.

A lot of people are forgetting that F1 is run solely as an investment for CVC. They will do the bare minimum to ensure they are making money. They didn't buy into F1 for altruistic reasons.

[GitanesBlondes]

...
F1 should do the same: create a need, a demand for its product.
...

See if I can try and get you correct here turbomod/member, you suggest that F1 should try and create a market for quiet
economy-racing on eraser-rubber tires with technology and regulations totally unfathomable to the general public?

That's a bold ambition.

This Turbomod totally approves bold ambitions. Turbo-stamped for approval.

Apple managed to create a huge market for essentially a cellphone and internet, things we already had just not combined. Steve Jobs would "boldly go" with bold ambitions. He'd make you even love the wings on a F1 car, mister Xalted.

Point in case: F1 should try harder to sell the product they have.

Trying to compare Apple to F1 is an apples to oranges comparison.

Think about what you can do with a smartphone versus what you can do with F1.

You can't compare consumer products to an entertainment product that produces absolutely nothing but entertainment for viewers. A more realistic comparison is Netflix vs F1 as both are televised entertainment. Netflix success is based upon ease of access to viewing, and the big one - selection. They can be more things to more people because of how much selection they have. F1 doesn't exactly have that luxury for obvious reasons because of the technical regulations, but at the same time, when it didn't try so hard to sell itself with phrases like the "pinnacle of motorsports" it meant many different things to fans.

F1 has made their ease of access increasingly difficult whether it be TV or costs to attend grands prix. Selection doesn't really exist as every team has been forced into the same bottleneck.

[mclaren111]

That's the hole point - get rid of BE & CVC.

[TAG]

As I see it here, the conversation is less and less about "the sound" and more and more about the state of F1 in general. People have a tendency to air their grievances, today being Festivus and all.

[Pierce89]

Well said. Simply changing the current fuel flow formula to a linear increase all the way to 15000 rpm would fix so many things in one stroke!
I wonder if the rule makers simply did not see that everyone would be shifting more or less before 13000...

I'm pretty sure the rulemakers knew we'd get shifts in between 11k-12k rpm, they just put in the 15,000 so they could use that as a strawman ,to to use in math claiming the new PUs would sound good and put out high frequencies like the v8.

[Pierce89]

The issue with entertainment is that it also needs to appeal manufacturers. Not every manufacturer is interested in old V10 technology. They want a set of regulations that allows them to showcase how technoloigcal advanced they are. Even Ferrari embraced that implementing hybrid systems in their road cars.

Let me take an example: GT3 to GT1. Manufacturers lost interesr to back teams, who drove in its last year with roughly the same cars. Even though they ran the same cars, thr cost was still too high and the lms series were actually more attractive, both for teams and manufacturers. The GT1 came to an end after just 3 years even though it embraced loud engines.

The best solution would be an opening-up of the regulations. The current format sounds and is boring when everybody has the same engine; same variation will give it some sex-appeal!

You've got this all wrong. The gt1 was always gt3 with a bigger restrictor and bigger fender flares. Also the series didn't end, they just changed the name to Blancpain Sprint Series and just went back to standard gt3s. This series never had the same rules as ACO gt1. The ACO Corvette and Aston had HUGE performance penalties to compete in the serries.

[Blanchimont]

Well said. Simply changing the current fuel flow formula to a linear increase all the way to 15000 rpm would fix so many things in one stroke!
I wonder if the rule makers simply did not see that everyone would be shifting more or less before 13000...

I'm pretty sure the rulemakers knew we'd get shifts in between 11k-12k rpm, they just put in the 15,000 so they could use that as a strawman ,to to use in math claiming the new PUs would sound good and put out high frequencies like the v8.

I think that the main idea of the 100kg/h rule above 10500 rpm is to ensure that the distance to the rev limiter is big enough. How often did we see cars during the 18000rpm limited V8 era hitting the limiter, but not once with the current fuel low limit.

[xpensive]

...
How often did we see cars during the 18000rpm limited V8 era hitting the limiter, but not once with the current fuel low limit.

I have a far better idea; The flow-limit doesn't apply above 15 000 rpm?

[dans79]

They wouldn't as whomever eventually takes over is going to be thinking solely in terms of maximizing CVC's profits.

A lot of people are forgetting that F1 is run solely as an investment for CVC. They will do the bare minimum to ensure they are making money. They didn't buy into F1 for altruistic reasons.

True, but hopefully the new person, would be self aware, and not routinely make him/herself look senile in the press. At this point Bernie hurts F1 more than he helps it as far as I'm concerned.

[PlatinumZealot]

Well said. Simply changing the current fuel flow formula to a linear increase all the way to 15000 rpm would fix so many things in one stroke!
I wonder if the rule makers simply did not see that everyone would be shifting more or less before 13000...

This is easiest thing to do. I agree with this. Ramp up the fuel, give the same engines per year and we should be in for a better show.

[Andres125sx]

A lot of people are forgetting that F1 is run solely as an investment for CVC. They will do the bare minimum to ensure they are making money. They didn't buy into F1 for altruistic reasons.

Sure, but they´re increasing taxes both to host a F1 GP and for broadcasting wich is ok while there still are enough audience but, what will happen when TV channels and tracks stop paying those taxes because they don´t get enough income to make the investment profitable?

We´re not that far from that point, TV audience falling down, track stands half-empty or almost completely empty....

[GitanesBlondes]

They wouldn't as whomever eventually takes over is going to be thinking solely in terms of maximizing CVC's profits.

A lot of people are forgetting that F1 is run solely as an investment for CVC. They will do the bare minimum to ensure they are making money. They didn't buy into F1 for altruistic reasons.

True, but hopefully the new person, would be self aware, and not routinely make him/herself look senile in the press. At this point Bernie hurts F1 more than he helps it as far as I'm concerned.

I've never bought into the Bernie as a senile old man.

It's probably the greatest act he has ever pulled off; convincing the bulk of F1 fans and even the teams for that matter that he is out of touch with reality. Just consider it from a logical point of view. What private equity group would ever have an 84 year old man being the point man making the big decisions if he was senile and out of touch with reality?

Simple answer is that they wouldn't. No company would unless they wanted to be a perennial money loser, and CVC is not that group.

If anything, Bernie's senile act went out the window as soon as the whole court case was cleared up.

There was a transcript with Bernie recently that Christian Sylt posted on Forbes.com where when you actually read the answers Bernie gives, you'll see he's quite in command of everything that is going on as well as quite lucid. Sure there's going to come a day where this no longer applies, but it still hasn't happened yet.