Exhaust blown diffusers and FIA restrictions/ban

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Yup last night the FIA handed out a temporary reprieve for EBD's to be raced this weekend. Horner must have threatened to have an Aneurysm in the event of a ban.

If teams were told of this last week, why cant they sort it for this weekend?

[i70q7m7ghw]

I was hoping for some non-DRS overtaking!

Have you missed the races this year? There's be plenty of that.

If/When this change comes in, it's unlikely it'll turn the grid on it's head. I suspect it will just tighten things up a bit, it's not like Red Bull are suddenly going to be struggling for points.

[andrew]

Yup last night the FIA handed out a temporary reprieve for EBD's to be raced this weekend. Horner must have threatened to have an Aneurysm in the event of a ban.

If teams were told of this last week, why cant they sort it for this weekend?

More than likely a lot of the teams who have just got their new fangled exhausts sorted out were not too happy about the ban so protested. At least they'll get to use it for one race!

I was hoping for some non-DRS overtaking!

Have you missed the races this year? There's be plenty of that.

I should have added tyre assisted to that list. [-o<

[i70q7m7ghw]

This isn't an outright ban on blown diffusers, so I don't think we are going to see significant drops in lap time. The Red Bull for example, would probably have the same apex speed through turn 8 in Turkey, because it would have been on the throttle.

I suspect certain teams have protested the 'ban' based on the fact their cars would become very unstable. Using the same example again, if the a driver in the Red Bull suddenly had to lift off in turn 8 at Turkey, he would have lost a big chunk of downforce right in the middle of a high speed corner.

What would be a real slap in the face for whoever instigated it, is if after this rule change comes in to place, Red Bull still dominate, or increase their advantage, which is equally as possible as them losing it.

I was hoping for some non-DRS overtaking!

Have you missed the races this year? There's be plenty of that.

I should have added tyre assisted to that list. [-o<

Keep hoping, unless F1 slows down to Formula Ford speeds, two evenly matched cars will always struggle to overtake.

[kalinka]

I suspect certain teams have protested the 'ban' based on the fact their cars would become very unstable. Using the same example again, if the a driver in the Red Bull suddenly had to lift off in turn 8 at Turkey, he would have lost a big chunk of downforce right in the middle of a high speed corner.

My question on page12 was regarding to that situation exactly. The preview of the rule states that EBD is restricted "under braking". But is it restricted in "off throttle+no braking" situation ? I think in turn8 they just lift the throttle and don't brake....??? Just want an opinion on that...

Seems I have the ability to ask questions at wrong times It's the third time I ask it....so far no reaction

[Richard]

kalinka - the info we have seen is that the limitation would be on the engine mapping when the driver lifts off the throttle pedal.

[i70q7m7ghw]

I suspect certain teams have protested the 'ban' based on the fact their cars would become very unstable. Using the same example again, if the a driver in the Red Bull suddenly had to lift off in turn 8 at Turkey, he would have lost a big chunk of downforce right in the middle of a high speed corner.

My question on page12 was regarding to that situation exactly. The preview of the rule states that EBD is restricted "under braking". But is it restricted in "off throttle+no braking" situation ? I think in turn8 they just lift the throttle and don't brake....??? Just want an opinion on that...

Seems I have the ability to ask questions at wrong times It's the third time I ask it....so far no reaction

Well from what I understand it's a ban on any kind of retarded ignition, braking or no braking. Somewhere in turn 8 like Turkey, the driver could probably adapt his driving style for smoother throttle application through the corner.

In the early part of 2010 it was speculated that Red Bull hadn't perfected the throttle mapping so they didn't use it. This meant the drivers had to try and stay on the throttle or get on it earlier to get maximum downforce.

[kalinka]

Thanks Richard,Diesel for the info. I must've missed somwhere that.

[SiLo]

I would like to think that Red Bull will lose performance because although their rake helps the front wing, it also creates a massive diffuser. If the cars are much more unstable it will make the racing more interesting! Although I feel with the rake they are running, they will lose a larger portion of downforce compared to Ferrari and Mclaren etc.

And how will this affect Renault? Will they be losing downforce across the entire floor of the car?

[FrukostScones]

Back and forth. What a FIA disaster, Now full off-throttle EBD blowíng is allowed again. Maybe the teams persuaded the FIA because of safety risks..?!? Whatever, Cheers Red Bull! =D>

[andrew]

I don't think this is a FIA induced disaster. I read somewhere else that there was never an offical descision on the ban of off throttle EBD for the Spanish GP.

[Gerhard Berger]

I would like to think that Red Bull will lose performance because although their rake helps the front wing, it also creates a massive diffuser. If the cars are much more unstable it will make the racing more interesting! Although I feel with the rake they are running, they will lose a larger portion of downforce compared to Ferrari and Mclaren etc.

And how will this affect Renault? Will they be losing downforce across the entire floor of the car?

I think Webber will also be much closer to Vettel once the technology is banned.

[lebesset]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/91481

not according to autosport ;the decision seemed precipitate , to say the least

[i70q7m7ghw]

I would like to think that Red Bull will lose performance because although their rake helps the front wing, it also creates a massive diffuser. If the cars are much more unstable it will make the racing more interesting! Although I feel with the rake they are running, they will lose a larger portion of downforce compared to Ferrari and Mclaren etc.

And how will this affect Renault? Will they be losing downforce across the entire floor of the car?

I think you're mis-understanding what is being banned. We are only talking about a ban on the retarded ignition, which allows 'off the throttle' blowing of the difusser. All teams will still be able to blow the difusser, it's effectiveness will just be controlled by the amount of throttle used. Red Bull's car would still work, it would just suffer in corners that aren't full throttle.

The ban has most likely been delayed due to dangerous instability, not interesting or fun.

[PlatinumZealot]

I would like to think that Red Bull will lose performance

Yeah, they will loose downforce anywhere the driver is not 100% on the throttle. I imagine that if for example, the driver demands 75% of the max airflow through the engine - The ECU will take in 100% air and fuel and retard the timing such that only 75% of power from the combustion is delivered to the pistons. The other 25% goes straight to exhaust. Literally running the engine at low efficiencies.

This type of tuning is extremely wasteful as the engine is running in a rich state every single time the driver is part throttle. The claims of 10% increase in fuel usage from Renault make much sense now.

Nevertheless, the Exhaust Blown diffuser will still exist, as Diesel said. There are still turns with the part throttle or even full throttle input from the driver. As for braking zones, I think a poster mentioned neutralling the gearbox and stepping on the throttle while braking. You must be a very skilled driver to do this and the risk might not be worth the 2m or so you cut off the braking distance.