The Mercedes AMG F1 Team has confirmed that it will unveil its new car, named the F1 W06 Hybrid on Sunday 1 February, the morning before testing commences at Circuito de Jerez in Spain.
is this a real quote? If they really believe it will be a much better car (could be pr talk, but they will have the full data over the W05) then combine that with the engine rumours. 2014 could be nothing compared to 2015.LightningLewis wrote:@hlawiczka #F1 Lowe: "#Mercedes won't carry over much directly but will redesign a large amount of the car." #W06 will be better much better car.
whoops. I meant Mercedes actually. dont know why i wrote mclaren there thoBlaze1 wrote:I completely agree with everything you posted Manoah, other than the car being an old McLaren.Manoah2u wrote:absolutely not, that is an old mclaren and the angle and unfinished work is just playing with the eyes/mind.
that small intake blow the main air intake is probably just a 'cap' missing. furthermore, the entire cam on top of the roll hoop is missing wich plays a lot on size comparison. The 'gloss' has not been put on yet which also plays with the eyes.
It has been said in the previous page that the black still needs fading - it is a work-in-progress picture.
and last of all; you seriously believe they are already spraypainting the W06 in 7th januari when they have lots more time for the car? no way.
It is from here:astracrazy wrote:is this a real quote? If they really believe it will be a much better car (could be pr talk, but they will have the full data over the W05) then combine that with the engine rumours. 2014 could be nothing compared to 2015.LightningLewis wrote:@hlawiczka #F1 Lowe: "#Mercedes won't carry over much directly but will redesign a large amount of the car." #W06 will be better much better car.
Again I was talking about air entering the combustion chamber. Not the temperature of the ambient air temperature outside that your graph is for so I still don't see your point.PlatinumZealot wrote:
Even in the small picture it is a very universal understanding that hot air is harder to compress. The F1 engines will have losses across the turbocharger and in the cylinders itself.
Without going into any equations.. (I am very rusty here!) I have a screen grab from Wartsila's website on how temperature affects generator output. Granted these are very large plants here but the effect holds true for any engine. Below is a comparison to piston engine (less sensitive to ambient changes) to turbine, but the effect is still there.
http://www.wartsila.com/ss/500x329xSate ... eWbU5.webp
Yes it still applies. The colder the temperature before compression gives you more power because the gas is easier to compress and you can advance your spark timing due to less knocking. Pretty standard engine stuff Trini...If you check the carnot cycle efficiency equation you will see the the colder the "cold reservoir" and the hotter the "hot reservoir" the more efficient your engine is. Hmm...I sense.... you are more of an aerodynamics guy than mechanics and thermodynamics guy. No need to be so gaurded. We all learn from each other here.trinidefender wrote:Again I was talking about air entering the combustion chamber. Not the temperature of the ambient air temperature outside that your graph is for so I still don't see your point.PlatinumZealot wrote:
Even in the small picture it is a very universal understanding that hot air is harder to compress. The F1 engines will have losses across the turbocharger and in the cylinders itself.
Without going into any equations.. (I am very rusty here!) I have a screen grab from Wartsila's website on how temperature affects generator output. Granted these are very large plants here but the effect holds true for any engine. Below is a comparison to piston engine (less sensitive to ambient changes) to turbine, but the effect is still there.
http://www.wartsila.com/ss/500x329xSate ... eWbU5.webp
If you refer to my original post then you will see me state that lowering the temperature below that which is required for knock control will not increase power. I specifically mentioned that the temperature still has to be below this knock threshold. Below this limit there is an optimum spark advance so that argument still doesn't hold water as I addressed it in my very first post.PlatinumZealot wrote:Yes it still applies. The colder the temperature before compression gives you more power because the gas is easier to compress and you can advance your spark timing due to less knocking. Pretty standard engine stuff Trini...If you check the carnot cycle efficiency equation you will see the the colder the "cold reservoir" and the hotter the "hot reservoir" the more efficient your engine is. Hmm...I sense.... you are more of an aerodynamics guy than mechanics and thermodynamics guy. No need to be so gaurded. We all learn from each other here.trinidefender wrote:Again I was talking about air entering the combustion chamber. Not the temperature of the ambient air temperature outside that your graph is for so I still don't see your point.PlatinumZealot wrote:
Even in the small picture it is a very universal understanding that hot air is harder to compress. The F1 engines will have losses across the turbocharger and in the cylinders itself.
Without going into any equations.. (I am very rusty here!) I have a screen grab from Wartsila's website on how temperature affects generator output. Granted these are very large plants here but the effect holds true for any engine. Below is a comparison to piston engine (less sensitive to ambient changes) to turbine, but the effect is still there.
http://www.wartsila.com/ss/500x329xSate ... eWbU5.webp
The Mazda Sky Active engineers explains how lowering the temperature before compression was the key to unlocking the potential of high compression ratio engines. http://www.mazda.com/technology/skyacti ... tiv-g.html
And a blown blower!Pieoter wrote:I heard that it has more ellipses than ever before
Even if you max out your spark advance and eliminate all knocking. If you lower the temperature of the air before it is compressed the compression will be closer to isentropic and your compresion losses will reduce giving more power at the flywheel. This is implied in the Carnot equation and it it really does happen in real life.trinidefender wrote:If you refer to my original post then you will see me state that lowering the temperature below that which is required for knock control will not increase power. I specifically mentioned that the temperature still has to be below this knock threshold. Below this limit there is an optimum spark advance so that argument still doesn't hold water as I addressed it in my very first post.PlatinumZealot wrote:
Yes it still applies. The colder the temperature before compression gives you more power because the gas is easier to compress and you can advance your spark timing due to less knocking. Pretty standard engine stuff Trini...If you check the carnot cycle efficiency equation you will see the the colder the "cold reservoir" and the hotter the "hot reservoir" the more efficient your engine is. Hmm...I sense.... you are more of an aerodynamics guy than mechanics and thermodynamics guy. No need to be so gaurded. We all learn from each other here.
The Mazda Sky Active engineers explains how lowering the temperature before compression was the key to unlocking the potential of high compression ratio engines. http://www.mazda.com/technology/skyacti ... tiv-g.html
The power in an engine is created by the pressure in the cylinder. However it takes power to compress this mixture of fuel and air (or just air in our case with DI). Yes I agree you want the greatest change in temperature in the combustion chamber. The greater the change of the in temperature in the combustion chamber, the greater the change in pressure. The greater the change in pressure the greater the force exerted on the piston.
Nope, not by my logic, that's your Trini logic! A larger inter-cooler can only cool the intake air close to ambient temperature but never below it - so that logic indeed does not make any sense. However if you had water injection or dry ice packed around your inter-cooler that is a different story. Anyways, all I was saying was that having the compressor and MGUH away from the turbine - should lower intake temperatures which is a good thing. I am not sure why you were denying this!By your logic, the larger the intercooler, the more power these engines will make with no increase in fuel flow. That doesn't make sense. As far as I am aware, once your intercooler is large enough to bring the airflow down to a temperature to inhibit knocking then lowering it anymore won't do anything for your power levels.
Or maybe they start the season with W05b and introduce W06 later to get round the engine homologation issue. Ferrari did this in 2002 starting the season with a revised F2001. Not sure if any rules have been introduced since to prohibit this.PlatinumZealot wrote:It just hit me that the W06 could actually use the same chassis as the W05 with only minor tweaks. The W05 chassis was freaking good! There is no real need to change too much on it. In fact, I might just go out on a limb and side with the guy who said its the W06, which is basically a W05! Ha, bet us call it W05-B. It is true its a crazy idea to paint the chassis that early, however if Mercedes already has the W05 chassis there is no point in waiting till January to paint them. Certainly very plausible that the W05-B is what we will be seeing this year from Mercedes.
Doing that, would obviously be wrought with risks of not knowing where the problems are with the new car, ahead in time. Introducing the new stuff early and then working through the problems and optimizing the performance, is a tried and tested method. Being the favorites going into the season, you would not want to do crazy thing like introducing a whole new car after few months in season and then hitting upon major problems, which would completely derail the season. W05 would have been a great car, but to not evaluate W06 early and run with the old car, in my opinion would be way too silly. Remember, we have been hearing a lot of changes that they have targeted with their PU and with regulation change around nose, there may be impact to overall aerodynamic efficiency. So the faster you get them out and test it, the better it is to optimize the package for crucial parts of the season. Winter testing would be the place to know how the package performs and get the fixes done before the season starts. After that you hardly have time to resolve your problems, if you want to depend upon in-season testing.Coefficient wrote:Or maybe they start the season with W05b and introduce W06 later to get round the engine homologation issue. Ferrari did this in 2002 starting the season with a revised F2001. Not sure if any rules have been introduced since to prohibit this.PlatinumZealot wrote:It just hit me that the W06 could actually use the same chassis as the W05 with only minor tweaks. The W05 chassis was freaking good! There is no real need to change too much on it. In fact, I might just go out on a limb and side with the guy who said its the W06, which is basically a W05! Ha, bet us call it W05-B. It is true its a crazy idea to paint the chassis that early, however if Mercedes already has the W05 chassis there is no point in waiting till January to paint them. Certainly very plausible that the W05-B is what we will be seeing this year from Mercedes.
prince wrote:Doing that, would obviously be wrought with risks of not knowing where the problems are with the new car, ahead in time. Introducing the new stuff early and then working through the problems and optimizing the performance, is a tried and tested method. Being the favorites going into the season, you would not want to do crazy thing like introducing a whole new car after few months in season and then hitting upon major problems, which would completely derail the season. W05 would have been a great car, but to not evaluate W06 early and run with the old car, in my opinion would be way too silly. Remember, we have been hearing a lot of changes that they have targeted with their PU and with regulation change around nose, there may be impact to overall aerodynamic efficiency. So the faster you get them out and test it, the better it is to optimize the package for crucial parts of the season. Winter testing would be the place to know how the package performs and get the fixes done before the season starts. After that you hardly have time to resolve your problems, if you want to depend upon in-season testing.Coefficient wrote:Or maybe they start the season with W05b and introduce W06 later to get round the engine homologation issue. Ferrari did this in 2002 starting the season with a revised F2001. Not sure if any rules have been introduced since to prohibit this.PlatinumZealot wrote:It just hit me that the W06 could actually use the same chassis as the W05 with only minor tweaks. The W05 chassis was freaking good! There is no real need to change too much on it. In fact, I might just go out on a limb and side with the guy who said its the W06, which is basically a W05! Ha, bet us call it W05-B. It is true its a crazy idea to paint the chassis that early, however if Mercedes already has the W05 chassis there is no point in waiting till January to paint them. Certainly very plausible that the W05-B is what we will be seeing this year from Mercedes.
As far as someone like Geoff Willis is concerned, the faster they move through W06 and get feedback, the faster he can move on in W07 design. This is an assembly line work structure, if you delay now, that might just have cascading effect for next iteration.
Even with all new parts, an evolution it will most likely be. The regulations didn't change and they had a very good car.LightningLewis wrote:@hlawiczka #F1 Lowe: "#Mercedes won't carry over much directly but will redesign a large amount of the car." #W06 will be better much better car.
Big difference between now and then is that Ferrari could test the new car as much as they wanted - at their own private test track - in 2002 whilst continuing racing with the old car. Other than the pre-season tests - where I'm presuming in your scenario they would be testing the engine changes in a W05B chassis? - there are only two after race sessions throughout the entire 2015 season.Coefficient wrote:Or maybe they start the season with W05b and introduce W06 later to get round the engine homologation issue. Ferrari did this in 2002 starting the season with a revised F2001. Not sure if any rules have been introduced since to prohibit this.PlatinumZealot wrote:It just hit me that the W06 could actually use the same chassis as the W05 with only minor tweaks. The W05 chassis was freaking good! There is no real need to change too much on it. In fact, I might just go out on a limb and side with the guy who said its the W06, which is basically a W05! Ha, bet us call it W05-B. It is true its a crazy idea to paint the chassis that early, however if Mercedes already has the W05 chassis there is no point in waiting till January to paint them. Certainly very plausible that the W05-B is what we will be seeing this year from Mercedes.
